ONLY ON 3: Mayor Saffo discusses latest baseball developments


Tags: , , , , , , ,

Submitted: Wed, 07/11/2012 - 10:07pm
Updated: Thu, 07/12/2012 - 3:59pm By:

WILMINGTON, NC (WWAY) — In an exclusive live interview, Wilmington Mayor Bill Saffo talked with WWAY about the latest developments in the discussions on a ballpark for the Port City. Among the topics he discussed were the bond referendum City Council is considering to pay for the ballpark, citizen feedback and input on the plan and the rejection of a petition with thousands of signatures opposing taxpayer funding for the project.

75 Comments

  • MrT says:

    A few weeks back you were supporting a 15 million dollar number as an acceptable amount for the city and you felt the citizens would support.
    Now your at zero. Did you forget what you said. That’s ok, you have only written a million words on the subject. Why would anyone expect you to remember it all?
    Best Regards

  • 1981duke says:

    No we are all balanced,be a “naysayer” and that is fine,see you in line April 2014 for game 1.

  • Rocky Lane Moore says:

    It would be nice to go to a large stadium, and sing, “take me out to the ball game,” drink some miller 64, and spend time with friends watching a riveting game. Build it and they will come, don’t build it and they will not come. Maybe Michael Jordon could help you guys out. Why not name the stadium “Michael Jordon arena,” after all he was a ball player, and a former Wilmingtonian, and he was tag less.

  • John says:

    “Cheer for your favorite Stockton California sport while you enjoy the waterfront view of Downtown Stockton . The Stockton waterfront events center defines the city’s redevelopment efforts, and includes the 10,000-seat Stockton Arena, plus the adjacent Stockton Ballpark. Watch as three professional teams do battle here — including the new Thunder Hockey team and the Oakland A’s farm team, the Stockton Ports. Don’t miss the action on the college circuit either. If you’d rather play than watch, tee off on one of our beautiful golf courses. Stockton is the ideal place for
    good sports.
    Chalk up a win for Stockton. Sports are here to stay. Get all the city of Stockton sports information, and come to enjoy a game or two before visiting the sites in nearby Northern California.”

    ” Expensive city investments — a promenade, a sports arena and a hotel — failed to produce an economic boon.”

    Well guess which large California city is bankrupt now !

  • Vog46 says:

    The stadium in Mobile was started in 1995. The owner of that stadium had another baseball team AA I believe, along with a hockey franchise.
    The Mobile newspaper ran the article saying no team but he’s starting a stadium.
    The Port City Roosters were going to stay here if attendance was good and he was gonna move the AA team to Mobile. When attendance here tapered off he moved the Roosters instead.
    We failed them.
    Minor league baseball for 3 years in Wilmington does NOT JUSTIFY the spending of ANY taxpayer dollars for ANY stadium.
    But especially not for a team with poor attendance already.
    Funny ow you pointed out average attendance and not the Hillcats attendance. You see Duke – we’re not getting the average team Duke we’re getting a poorly attended team. Further justification for NOT approving this deal.
    You earn a new stadium with our tax dollars – you don’t get it up front.
    YOU STILL CAN”T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS CAN YOU?
    Sorry but critical thinking is required for decisions like this based upon empirical data not estimates and best guesses and flawed surveys.
    The Hillcats are poorly attended, coming to a city with past attendance problems and failed teams. We have no business even thinking about risking taxpayer dollars for this.
    If we were talking about the Port City Roosters, or the Wilmington Waves, or Duke’s Dogs – who were here for 15 years by now, and were outgrowing Brooks field, I’d be in line to approve this stadium. Now, if Mandalanta decides to build it themselves? I got no problem with that either and would welcome the baseball team.
    Best Regards
    Vog

  • guesty says:

    From duke: “If we can not invest this int ourselves,no one else will.”

    You finally figured it out, there are no private investors lining up for the “gem” because they are not in business to lose money. That is why you are pushing so hard for tax money to be used.

    Smart business people are in business to make money, not lose it.

  • Guest2020 says:

    It is not a solid business decision to gamble with money you do not have. Saffo said himself when he was campaigning for re-election that Wilmington could not afford a taxpayer funded stadium. Since that time I haven’t heard of the city generating enough money to change that opinion. Can anyone out there explain why Wilmington couldn’t afford it then, but Wilmington can afford it now?

  • Katherine says:

    “NSS said baseball is a good thing for Wilmington”

    No, Bill, that’s not exactly what they said. I was watching when you (dramatically) asked the NSS guy, “Tell us what we want to know. Is baseball good for Wilmington?” The reply was, “Well, it could be.” He then went on to hem and haw about variables and possibilities and could bes and maybes. If the question had been “Is baseball BAD for Wilmington?” the response would have been similar.

    Consultants are modern day carnival psychics. They gather whatever information they can about you, then give you vague, non-specific answers that you’re free to interpret as you want. The only solid answer this guy gave was, “That didn’t fall within the scope of our study”. Know what that means? “If you want better answers, you have to give us more money.” So, of course, our council fell eagerly all over themselves to oblige.

  • Commonsensenotcommontoday says:

    It’s about the city assuming an enormous amount of debt that it simply cannot afford for something that is not a necessity or function of government.

    The city is already carrying a large debt load (about $3260 per resident) and tacking another $50-100 million (interest included) on top of an already burdensome level of indebtedness is insane. City taxes will creep up, move up, and eventually take off like a bottle rocket when these inflated, fantastic pipe dreams of stadium success come home to roost.

    If the county residents are watching this as disinterested, outside observers, wake up. We’ve already had two current county commissioners make statements about the county having an interest in the stadium, and all it will take is one or two future election cycles with big contributions from those with financial interests in the stadium, to have the county reaching for its checkbook too. We may not be able to vote on this referendum in November, but you can let your feelings be known and throw a few bucks toward those trying hard to end this nonsense, so they can buy some advertising.

    Chad Adams hit the nail on the head when he compared the city council to crack addicts yesterday. They know it’s crazy, but they simply can’t NOT blow your money.

  • Vog46 says:

    And also a real estate agent developer.

    Here’s why he stumbled and appeared to repeat things:

    Back in April this stadium was touted as being paid for by private investors. Now Mandalay said private investment is off the table.

    Back in April the NSS report said they would build a 6404 seat stadium. Now a developer/builder – who happens to be the owner of the land where the stadium will be located said he could build a stadium for $25M – but it will be 3500 hard seats or a size reduction of 45% from the NSS report.

    Why do we want our government involved in a private enterprise? We are not a “corp”ocracy. Yes give them tax breaks as an enticement – but to build the building used/leased by a single private enterprise to make a profit? This is government intrusion into the private marketplace on a grand scale paid for NOT by revenue bonds but by general obligation bonds.
    No one can answer why this is different than the Port City Roosters.
    No one can answer why the private investors pulled out.
    Odd………..

    Bet Regards
    Vog

  • 1981duke says:

    Is a real bad example,as we all know what happened to California real-estate.it devalued.
    We are not in that cycle.

  • WilmingtonMAJ says:

    I think it’s funny how everyone on here constantly says that the “voters” don’t want this ball park. Just because a majority of the 100 or so commenters on this forum don’t want it doesn’t mean that a majority of voters doesn’t want it. Personally I haven’t spoken to a single person who doesn’t want the ballpark, myself included. Granted I can afford it if taxes go up a bit to cover the cost and many can’t. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong or should or shouldn’t come, just commenting on the fact that there are plenty of people who do want to see this park be built, even if it means the city pays for it. To date I haven’t seen or heard of any real polls that say one way or another…

  • Guest 1984 says:

    I just had a stunning idea – How about the City forgoes the idea of a baseball stadium, and puts their efforts and available monies forward to help UNCW get a football team!!!!!! It’s all local, we all win!!!!!!

  • taxpayer says:

    You must have your head somewhere other than sitting between your shoulders.

  • Vog46 says:

    OK Duke here it is:
    Nov 2 1995 – a new ballpark is being built in mobile. Here’s the news article:
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=JDRUAAAAIBAJ&sjid=jI4DAAAAIBAJ&pg=3620,310845&dq=mobile+stadium&hl=en
    There was NO TEAM yet. In fact the article says AA ball coming to Mobile.
    Now here’s the Star News a year later on May 30. 1996:
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=EusyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dxUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2967,5769313&dq=en
    The deal was not completed yet for the sale of the PCR to this new owner
    The Roosters were NOT temporary. The Mariners sold them because of poor attendance.
    Best Regards
    Vog

  • Vog46 says:

    No this is not Stockton
    This is Wilmington NC
    Home to two that’s right 2 failed, minor league baseball teams.
    Attendance was pitiful.

    3 years total baseball time here Duke, when the league average is 34 years in each established city.
    My marketing skills Duke? Oh I’m NOT gonna debate that with you.
    But you make one grievous error Duke. You assume I’m anti baseball.
    Far from it.
    I am against using taxpayer dollars to fund this. I’m against building a stadium for a team that has very poor attendance records. If those attendance numbers hold here in Wilmington then the economic impact is highly over stated. Considering their attendance the stadium as proposed is too big and therefore too costly.
    I’m actually hopeful that it gets done at no cost to taxpayers. Heck I might even take in a game or two with my grandson.
    But you can’t answer the questions:
    Is 3 cents 10% of 30 cents?
    Why is this different from the PCR and Wilmington Waves?
    Why are you commenting on this when you’re NOT a city taxpayer.
    Why does the NSS report estimate attendance where will be double what it is currently in Lynchburg?

    I will welcome baseball here should it not cost me anything

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • 1981duke says:

    @Vog-we have been through this,save your dramatics.
    The proposed capacity is 6299 and this includes 1400 Lawn Seats.
    The balance is chairbacks,and suite seats.
    There is no 45% reduction in seats,give it a rest.
    Their is nothing wrong,or illegal about the City using a stadium to make money.
    Not one thing,again you “scare” Wilmingtonians thinking we are all going under……
    Not the case.
    You continue to show your ignorance,or lack of either facts,knowledge how this industry works.
    That is why we leave this up to those who know,like NSS/MANDALAY who are 2 industry leaders.

  • Detroit of the south says:

    I wouldn’t doubt if the city hires Mexicans to build this stadium, while perfectly able body moochers that live in the housing projects get to sleep in! Wilmington is officially the Detroit of the south, just drive over to Long Leaf park and witness hoards of roaming homeless, crack heads and stray animals!!

  • 1981duke says:

    Hence do not bring MJ here,an awesome player,one of the best.
    As far as owner/general manager he is not good,and wherever he assumes this role his teams are just “horrible”.
    So we will take MJ’S money,but as far as ownership,management-NO.

  • Guest08 says:

    You mean the way your ancestors got free labor and ripe the benefits.Every homeless person is not on crack or addicted to any drugs.Have you ever heard of mental illness.Everyone that live in public housing are not lazy.Do they all work no,do they all want to work probably not.When they do build the stadium you can bet those that want to work will work,those that don’t will not.Maybe one or two of your friends that aren’t working will join the work force.What was the point of your comment.Are you from Detriot(if so you might have to move again).

  • Vog46 says:

    I love marketing people. I love them because they tell such distorted facts.
    I go back to “the survey” that Duke, Mr. T and other baseball PROponents use as their basis for “demographics don’t lie” schtick. It is here:
    http://www.wwaytv3.com/2012/05/29/citys-consultant-releases-ballpark-survey-results-potential-sites-narrowed-down
    I also want to thank the poster who recently said something that piqued my interest. He said something to the affect that a 3.5 cent per hundred tax increase would only amount to $70 tax increase annually for a $200,000 home. But the survey is disingenuous in that it breaks down what people are willing to pay extra PER MONTH. First the survey results and I will try to keep it simple:
    47% supported private public financing
    40% did not. But then the question of how much you’d be willing to pay came up.
    $4-6 increase per month had 19% willing to pay
    $2-4 increase had 16% willing to pay
    $2 increase had 18% willing to pay
    So lets figure out using that same $200,000 house just how much support a $42M bond has. They claim its 3.5 cents per 100 of valuation. I will calculate using half cent increments and bring it down to a monthly cost per house
    3.5 cents per $100 = $5.83/month
    3.0 cents per $100 = $5.00/month
    2.5 cents per $100 = $4.16/month
    2.0 cents per $100 = $3.33/month
    1.5 cents per $100 = $2.50/month
    1.0 cents per $100 = $1.66/month
    It would appear as though we would have to get that bond down to the 1.0 to 1.5 cent per $100 rate to have ANY chance to pass. A rough guess would mean a bond of $10M – $15M
    But the funny thing was the survey was not exclusive to city residents – 31% of the survey respondents WOULD NOT HAVE TO PAY THE TAX INCREASE because they were county residents.
    So a minority (47%) wants pub/pri financing and of that, 1/3 were NON city residents, and of that group NO ONE would pay for a $42M bond. In fact only 1/5 of the respondents want to pay for a stadium in the $20M price range.
    This is your survey Duke – the one you keep pointing to…….and YOU are not a resident either. But I wonder about this survey. It seems that in April we had 100% private financing. After the survey came out saying we’d be willing to pay “something” private financing dried up? Are we THAT naïve?
    Best Regards
    Vog

  • 1981duke says:

    @VOG,
    Your analysis close,but “deal” not finished.

    You forgot incomes of-
    $400,000 rent annually by Mandalay for City.
    Percentage of concession sales at stadium
    Ticket incentive,back to city..
    Parking Revenues back to city..

    So you left out alot.

    YOU also left out $10-11 million+++ of “new” sales tax revenue for the city annually.

    So you have alot to do,you also have to remember the”deal” is going to change,Mandalay here next week with City.
    So be patient,the costs going Down all the time,without changing quality of the”stadium” or “product” for consumers.

  • Vog46 says:

    The NSS report included a survey that was distributed through the Wilm Convention Center, Chamber of Commerce and one other venue. It was not a blanket survey of city residents. 31% of the respondents were county NOT city residents and were commenting on something that did not affect their own tax rate.
    Everyone LIKES baseball and everyone wants baseball – so long as the major costs are paid for by someone else. Back before the survey was released Mandalay and Atlanta told the city the stadium was paid for by private investors and the city’s portion of the overall project was minimal.
    After the survey was conducted private investment disappeared. I wonder if it was because the survey said we’d pay a part of the cost.
    Thats why many are so upset.
    If it’s free we want it – who wouldn’t?
    But we went from all construction paid for to very little paid for and from a lot of private investment to little or no private investment.
    All the while Atlanta team is sitting on $900M in cash.
    There is no doubt everyone likes or tolerates baseball – but no one likes it enough to want a tax increase to pay for it.
    Those that live here are against it. Guys like Duke who don’t like it are for it.
    I wish the survey had been done professionally using those people affected by it only, but given who did the survey you can see why they did it the way they did. They surveyed trying to get the answers they wanted – because if its built they would profit from it…
    We failed at baseball before due to lack of attendance. I don’t know whats different about this team…..

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • MrT says:

    Hey Man Life is short and you seem so consumed by details you have not even seen yet. The details you take so much time to describe are mere discussion at this point. To date all reported information is little more than bits and pieces of speculation. Not anything is set and when the City is ready they will let us know and the citizens will get to determine the value in Nov. A few weeks back I presented my crystal ball predictions and so far I’m doing pretty good. Take a break man when it comes together you might even like it?
    Best Regards!!

  • Vog46 says:

    I quoted the survey
    I crunched the numbers giving a range of possibilities
    Those ARE real Mr. T

    I will support the stadium if we go back to Mandalays original proposal whereby the construction costs were paid for by private investment.
    That when I’l like it

    Vog

  • Vog46 says:

    still can’t answer the questions can you?
    What about the port city roosters
    What about Mandalay saying the city wouldn’t have to pay in April and now we have to pay all of not most of the costs?

    I have made no insinuation about Wilmington going under – far from it.
    I was quoting the SNO and WWAY article about the developer and land owner who said he could build the stadium for $20M to $25M with 3500 hard seats which is different than Mandalays initial 6404 seat offering.
    Nothing more nothing less.

    Please advise when you move to Wilmington and pay taxes to support the stadium – maybe then I’ll pay more attention to your posts
    It always easy to spend other peoples money…….

    Vog

  • taxpayer says:

    Have you taken the time to calculate the amount of retail sales it will take to generate $10-11 Million in sales tax? @6%, it will take $166 Million in retail sales to generate the amount of “new” sales tax revenue you cite. Not going to happen.

    The other figures you cite, rent, percentage of concession, ticket incentive, parking revenue, etc…purely speculative on your part. But the “new” sales tax revenue…a “pie-in-the-sky” figure.

  • Vog46 says:

    for a reason
    My tax numbers are hard numbers that’s what it would cost the taxpayers depending upon how big the bond will be.
    Your numbers are projections
    I then compared my hard numbers to that professional survey you’re so fond of to show that NO ONE in YOUR survey would support $42M.
    IN fact you’d have to get that figure down to $10M to $15M to get even close to having support, again, BASED UPON YOUR SURVEY.

    So answer the questions Duke-
    Why is this different from the Port City Roosters?
    Why did private financing which would have paid for the entire stadium construction costs – go away from April to July?

    And when you move to Wilmington and have a dog in this fight let us know Duke

    Vog

  • Guest187 says:

    Once again the people of Wilmington want something for.nothing. Just like those stuck up folks who run Wrightsville beach. Spending a little money to improve the city would help its image. Right now its just a a place gang bangers go to kill each other.

  • Vog46 says:

    Duke-

    “As far as costs, there will be some tax-liability, my calculated guess $4.00 per month per tax-payer.”
    From your survey:
    $4-6 increase per month had 19% willing to pay
    So – you think it will pass? Your own survey says the VAST majority would OPPOSE this level of taxation. The 40% who are against paying anything and those willing to pay ONLY less than $4 month.

    Of course if this survey WERE done professionally then they would have surveyed only those affected by the tax increase to get a better idea.

    Do you pay city of Wilmington property taxes Duke?
    Are you willing to admit that the Port City Roosters were a failed attempt at minor league baseball?
    Are you willing to admit that private investment dried up due to fears this wouldn’t work out?

    Every Mayor in the past decade has talked about baseball here. Saffo, Broadhurst and Peterson. It’s a failed dream – the Roosters proved it. Building a stadium would make that dream a nightmare.

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • Vog46 says:

    “So be patient,the costs going Down all the time”

    Construction costs covered by private investors according to Mandalay in April. Now they could be as high as $42M(minus cost of land buy)
    Anything above a 0 is an increase from April
    So how are costs going down?

    Answer the questions:
    How is this different than the Port City Roosters?
    How come private investors have abandoned this project since April?
    Why should we listen to YOU a person who doesn’t live, or pay taxes here?

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • 1981duke says:

    @VOG,
    Roosters,were always to be “temporary” here,came for 2 years maximum as Mobile,Alabama was building them a “new” stadium.
    They played at UNCW and had to share field for games,practices and could not sell beer,which is a huge revenue-maker.
    As far as private financing I think key”private investors” involved Wilmington as “frugal” ROI might take longer.
    Lastly—I live here ,have since 1991.
    As far as costs,there will be some tax-liability,my calculated guess $4.00 per month per tax-payer.
    If we can not invest this int ourselves,no one else will.

  • 1981duke says:

    Is based on a variety of demographic factors,that the USA government usses to qualify people for large lending.
    It is conservative,as you are talking “increases” due to an average of 5,000 fans per gamex 70 games and all the retailers/hotels/services/businesses who would benefit from “new customers”.
    Overall,it is conservative,not agressive.

  • Vog46 says:

    Unlike you and non taxpayer Duke I will research a subject and change my mind accordingly. I had overlooked the fact that initially and before the NSS survey came out Mandalay had said private investment had the entire construction costs covered.
    That changed after April.
    Shoot me……….

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • 1981duke says:

    VOG is all about ‘sensationism’amd ‘hype’ not facts

  • 1981duke says:

    The plan is solid.let it ride outas this something “never seen here”.
    If you and kid played baseball you should support and the tax liability most likely very low,so what is the problem?
    And no mater where you live,City or County or another state that means “nothing” All that matters is solid business decisions.

  • 1981duke says:

    Vog,
    no I do get it,you do not and continue to insert that “scare” into others,we have done the math and the market is “ripe’ here.
    You have no marketing expertise,and so shoot in this all the holes you want.
    It is the right product,right place,right time for Wilmington to seize the opportunity.
    Why not be a part of “future success”.
    The numbers/demographics are solid,whether you believe this or not.

  • guesty says:

    County residents don’t pay city property tax. You want to use city property tax to pay for a stadium. You don’t own property, you don’t pay any property tax which is why you are so eager to spend money you don’t contribute to.

  • 1981duke says:

    @Vog,
    I love people who “think” they are right.
    But as far as Port City Roosters,you are dead wrong..
    Time-line–
    1994—Nashville Express–AA
    1995—Port City Roosters-AA-attendance-110,233
    1996—Port City Roosters-AA-attendance-68,423
    1997-2006–Mobile Bay Bears-AA

    The Roosters became the Bears in 1997 and opened up brand new Hank Aaron Stadium 6,000 capacity is 1997.
    This is the reason for the move to Mobile,after 1995 here the Roosters knew the City of Wilmington would not come through and UNCW was not the place to be.
    So we failed the Roosters not them failing us,my kids also in school play ball here and now the time/climate/venue is on our side.
    Get your facts in line please

  • Commonsensenotcommontoday says:

    Do you think paying for entertainment is a function of government?

  • Guest2020 says:

    When Saffo was campaigning for his last re-election, he said that he would not support a taxpayer funded stadium because Wilmington could not afford it. I wish he would tell me how the money suddenly appeared. I have some bills to pay.

  • Vog46 says:

    In addition to Stockton CA you can now add San Bernadino CA home of the Inland Empire 66ers the Minor League-A affiliate of the Los Angeles Angels.
    No, real estate wasn’t the problem here Duke.
    San Bernadino pop of about 220,00
    The metro area includes Riverside CA and another fairly large city but the “metro” population was over way over 500,000
    Attendance was averaging 4500 per game, or about 2% of SB’s population.
    This, as I have pointed out to you has been the average for most A level minor league teams. This, in an area of over 1/2 million people.
    Why does NSS say we would have 3% attendance? Why is that when the Port City Roosters, a AA farm team could only muster 900 attendees per game?
    The attendance is overstated based on historic hard attendance figures of previous minor league teams here.
    Because of this over estimate, economic impact is also overstated. Taxpayer pointed out the absolutely bizarre increased sales tax figures.
    Sorry, but given the wave of municipal bankruptcies I don’t believe now is the time for Wilmington to be putting out ANY, repeat, ANY money for an entertainment venue. We should be playing close to the vest with out tax dollars……..
    We are not in danger of bankruptcy – we want to keep it that way.

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • WilmingtonMAJ says:

    Personally I would be fine paying a small tax increase for the stadium and to have a team here, but I realize i’m in the minority. Oh well…

  • Vog46 says:

    Hank Aaron stadium was started before the Port City Roosters even started playing here. The city of Mobile paid half and a private developer paid half (he already owned another AA franchise by the way).
    Minor league teams move around a lot, like the Roosters, which makes me skeptical about this deal. But make no mistake about why they left.
    WWAY, WECT and the Star News all attributed the demise of the Port City Roosters to low attendance -which was confirmed by team officials. They were NOT temporary. They came, they failed they moved.
    We just don’t support minor league baseball Duke.
    Attendance at Port City games was UNDER 1000 folks Duke, and don’t blame it on them having a poor team either. Thats not the draw for attendance at minor league games.
    Nope sorry “frugality” is not the reason why private investors would have pulled out Duke. LOSING their investment is. Or, they saw that some tax dollars were available so they pulled out as the risk was too great. If the risk was too great that means there’s a good chance the investment would NOT have paid off. We went from totally privately paid stadium to – what? At your property tax figure of $4month means $30M or so? Please try to explain AGAIN the loss of all private funding

    You say you live here. Do you pay city property taxes? (since you like to split words).

    I do. I have a dog in this fight. I had kids that went through the schools here. I still pay for those schools and I’m glad to do so as education is part of infrastructure IMHO. Just like Police fire, water sewer…heck even city government.
    Do I want to PAY for THIS ball park? NOPE – not a dime. If Atlanta and investors wants to? That’s fine, glad to have them here. That’s what the initial deal was, as announced by Mandalay.
    Anything else should get voted down…….

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • Vog46 says:

    Yeah I agree with THAT.
    First of all attendance is NOT going to be 5,000 per game even the NSS survey said that.
    Second, the fan base is within 35 miles, so no big increase in hotel room taxes. Everything is is a guess.
    My property tax figures are hard and are dependent upon how “good” the deal turns out to be.
    Duke just doesn’t “get it”
    A $42M bond guarantees a tax increase of 3.5 cents per 100
    But as the Stockton Calif situation points out, a minor league baseball and a stadium does not guarantee economic development and increases in revenues…..

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • taxpayer says:

    to baseball. I grew up watching the Pittsburgh Pirates…Stargell, Clemente, and Mazeroski. I’m a “naysayer” to taxpayer dollars being used. Like Vog…my children went through elementary, middle, and high school here. All three graduated in the top 2% of their class, then on to college.

    Your usage of figures that are a best-case scenario leave far too much room for failure. You say you live here…but do you pay City property taxes?

  • Vog46 says:

    A question…….
    City buys the land and builds the stadium

    The private developer puts say, a 155 room high class hotel on the site.
    Which is more beneficial for economic development?
    All hotel guest are over nighters
    All would be out of towners
    All would generate room taxes, meal taxes and sales taxes
    The hotel would operate 365 days per year versus 70 days per year
    The hotel corp would pay property taxes.

    The pro baseball folks are not doing effective cost revenue analysis for any other business that might want to build on that property. What if it could be used in a better way?

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • ChefnSurf says:

    Can’t remember seeing an innocent man looking so guilty. $affo kept clearing his throat and dry-swallowing every time he was asked a question.

    When asked why the city has continued with this when polls have overwhelmingly indicated otherwise, he gave a totally disingenuous response about making sure all bases were covered. That didn’t even begin to make sense.

    Why would $affo and cronies continue to persue this in the face of overwhelming negative response?

    With the irrational behaviour coming out of city council, it’s seriously starting to look like somehow, in some way, someone is about to line someone’s pockets in a seriously wrong way.

    It’s time for this to come to an end.

  • Guest 10101 says:

    Last time Saffo had a large list of requirements prior to blowing off an interview with you. What requirements were asked for and accomodated this time, if any?

  • Guest 10101 says:

    I would have to guess that Saffo did require scripting for the interview but also required non disclosure from WWAY as part of the deal. Past behavior is always a pretty good indicator of present behavior.

    A non response on your part would certainly be a strong indicator that this was the case.

    Either way, WWAY, thanks for putting him, if not in the hot seat, at least in the warm seat.

  • 1981duke says:

    @Vog,
    a BOND is the path that will be taken,unless I win the ‘powerball”.
    Hence you will get your 1 vote,we feel confident others will adopt to solidify the Community.
    You do a good job trying to “tear down” things,in the demolition business?
    Would not surprise me but to outlast the will for Baseball here you do not have enough years to outlast the “best/popular” choice.

  • Vog46 says:

    Correct but you’re talking private industry versus government.
    Walmart will “sell” a bond to raise money for construction. The people who WANT them buy a corporate bond. In this case property owners will be FORCED to pay. Don’t get me wrong this is how this works. There will be a vote but in essence, the people who are against this have no choice. Corporate bonds are bought by people WITH a choice
    Its a question of infrastructure(needs) versus wants.
    We need police, fire, water, sewer and schools
    We don’t need a baseball stadium – so Mandalay has to “sell” the city on the idea that this debt is good debt.
    Unfortunately debt in itself has become the dirtiest of 4 letter words.
    Most people will pay, begrudgingly, for infrastructure (even if they don’t have kids in the schools) – but to ask them to pay for something they don’t like, then feel they don’t need, and they don’t want and you get this situation.
    Apples to oranges – try again

    Vog

  • Rick Wilson says:

    @ 1981duke aka Chuck Kuebler, The owner of the Atlanta Braves reported wealth as of March of this year is 5.1 billion dollars. I don’t care what WalMart or anyone else does. This fact must really worry you. What is the matter, are you having a hard time figuring out how to convince people that might be struggling in this economy to vote for a tax increase for themselves to pay for a stadium for someone this wealthy? I’ll admit this is a hard sell. Maybe you can come up with some more “predictions.” Predictions are all that you have, hard facts that you can prove are not available to you. Your beloved NSS even shot holes in your earlier predictions of 5,000 fans per game for 70 games a year. Private investors have bailed out, Mandalay’s proposal is insulting. You claim they are negotiating, I call it insulting. This whole process has been a not so funny and costly joke from the beginning. The only people guaranteed anything in this proposal are Mandalay, the Braves, and their billionaire owner. Everything else is just maybes, what ifs, and predictions by people that want this stadium so bad it has clouded their judgment. I do not doubt your love of baseball, I do however disagree with your belief that you are way smarter than everyone else, and have the right to instruct them how to spend their money. One more time just for you. THERE ARE 5.1 BILLION REASONS THE TAX PAYERS DO NOT NEED TO PAY FOR THIS STADIUM!

  • Vog46 says:

    OK let me go through this slowly so even YOU can understand it.
    WalMart issues bonds to build a dist center – your example. People who want to buy the corporate bonds do so. Its “democratic” and all who buy them UNANIMOUSLY “elected” to buy them
    The city puts a bond to a vote – lets assume it passes like the parks bond did. EVERY taxpayer (except you) pays this, whether they voted for or against the park bond
    In city bonds you socialize the bond by forcing EVERYONE to pay.

    You are confusing a successful vote with a unanimous outcome and it’s not. Its kinda like the NSS survey. 47% said they favored a private public deal 40% did not. That leaves 13% in the undecided or don’t know don’t care. You DON”T have the majority of the voters because if that 13% votes against it you lose. You are assuming you have mandate when in fact all you’ve got is a poll written by people who would profit by a yes vote.

    So Duke – do you pay city of Wilmington property taxes?
    Can’t answer the question? Don’t want to answer the question?
    Yeah – kinda figured that…….supporting spending OPM is a very easy thing to do when YOU don’t have to pay it back…

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • Vog46 says:

    OK let me go through this slowly so even YOU can understand it.
    WalMart issues bonds to build a dist center – your example. People who want to buy the corporate bonds do so. Its “democratic” and all who buy them UNANIMOUSLY “elected” to buy them
    The city puts a bond to a vote – lets assume it passes like the parks bond did. EVERY taxpayer (except you) pays this, whether they voted for or against the park bond
    In city bonds you socialize the bond by forcing EVERYONE to pay.

    You are confusing a successful vote with a unanimous outcome and it’s not. Its kinda like the NSS survey. 47% said they favored a private public deal 40% did not. That leaves 13% in the undecided or don’t know don’t care. You DON”T have the majority of the voters because if that 13% votes against it you lose. You are assuming you have mandate when in fact all you’ve got is a poll written by people who would profit by a yes vote.

    So Duke – do you pay city of Wilmington property taxes?
    Can’t answer the question? Don’t want to answer the question?
    Yeah – kinda figured that…….supporting spending OPM is a very easy thing to do when YOU don’t have to pay it back…

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • Vog46 says:

    OK let me go through this slowly so even YOU can understand it.
    WalMart issues bonds to build a dist center – your example. People who want to buy the corporate bonds do so. Its “democratic” and all who buy them UNANIMOUSLY “elected” to buy them
    The city puts a bond to a vote – lets assume it passes like the parks bond did. EVERY taxpayer (except you) pays this, whether they voted for or against the park bond
    In city bonds you socialize the bond by forcing EVERYONE to pay.

    You are confusing a successful vote with a unanimous outcome and it’s not. Its kinda like the NSS survey. 47% said they favored a private public deal 40% did not. That leaves 13% in the undecided or don’t know don’t care. You DON”T have the majority of the voters because if that 13% votes against it you lose. You are assuming you have mandate when in fact all you’ve got is a poll written by people who would profit by a yes vote.

    So Duke – do you pay city of Wilmington property taxes?
    Can’t answer the question? Don’t want to answer the question?
    Yeah – kinda figured that…….supporting spending OPM is a very easy thing to do when YOU don’t have to pay it back…

    Best Regards
    Vog

  • guesty says:

    You don’t actually own any property, don’t pay property tax and don’t care how tax money is spent.

  • 1981duke says:

    Have any idea of the magnitude,importance of this for our entire area.

  • 1981duke says:

    Is the city,county,State the “Mecca” of knowledge?
    No,now you realize why “outside” consultants are used.
    Stop This Trash,means nothing,not one-thing.

  • guesty says:

    The county backed out of this smelly deal a long time ago, so only COW property owners will be on the hook. I’m guessing you don’t live in COW and if you do, you don’t actually own any property. Therefore you don’t pay any city property tax. That explains why you are so happy to spend my money.

  • 1981duke says:

    We can always have County re-arrange your sales tax,but I know you are so rich,resilient,so Colonial,we get it,remember COW where most of City businesses get their $$$$ from……good ole COUNTY residents,so thank them!

  • Fluffy says:

    I had no idea he didn’t live in Wilmington, he is such a chump. Where does he live

  • 1981duke says:

    No Mayor was supurb on TV and answered all the questions,ready for first pitch in 2014.

  • portcity rider says:

    For all those oppose to Baseball coming to Wilmington on a larger scale,you know its coming.When it does come you will have your friends and family right there in the stadium cheering for your home team and when one of them make it to the Big League you will be cheering him on especially if he is a home grown hero.So get over it.Will i be there, of course.Grand Daddy always said when you leave this earth you will have a bill in your house that you didn’t get a chance to pay and you will owe taxes.

  • 1981duke says:

    Let it be known,something once here our area will cherish,bring us great revenues.along with adding vibrance to our City,County,Area.
    “Bring it on”.

  • Jean Stanton says:

    STOP SPENDING OUR MONEY
    WE DO NOT WANT A BASEBALL FIELD/TEAM/FRANCHAISE
    TAKE THE “WELCOME TO WILMINGTON” SIGN DOWN AT THE MOMKEY JUNCTION TACO BELL
    YOU LOST
    LEAVE US ALONE

  • 1981duke says:

    Star News revisited,so now you leap to WWAY to argue the 5.1 billion argument.
    Again Rick,does Walmart pay for distribution centers?
    No they float bond-issues.
    This is how the”real’ business sector works.
    USING OPM–“other peoples money” for growth and profits is historical as well as fine,as long as we get our fair share.
    And you are not qualified to determine “fair share”.
    Give it a rest.let the intelligent decide.

  • Rick Wilson says:

    Saffo just said that the voters will decide and that will be it. Would everyone please get your friends and neighbors registered to vote and make sure they do. The more people that vote, the bigger defeat this will be for the King, his Court, and his 2 jesters. Nothing will be sweeter than Chuck and Terry trying to explain how their polls were not correct after all. There are 5.1 billion reasons to vote against tax payer money being used to finance this stadium. The owner of the Braves can easily afford to pay for his own playpen. Make him pay or let him leave!

  • Up-Chuck says:

    Chuck. You don’t live in the city; you don’t have a vote. You regurgitate nonsense,mutilate grammar and “punctuation”.Go bake some cookies.

  • 1981duke says:

    Just like the golden,olden days so tune in and hear for yourselves.

  • taxpayer says:

    you need to make sure you have a 220 volt line connected to the seat of his chair. Every time he lies….zap him.

  • 1981duke says:

    Support the proposal

  • robo says:

    The Mayor and his staff have shown they are against the vast majority of Wilmington area voters, who have expressed no interest in this expensive project.

  • Flufq says:

    Saffo is so full of it, he said his job is to do what is best for the city, his job is to do what is best for the PEOPLE of the city and we don’t want it. I’ve never been so ready for an election. Bye bye bud

  • Truthseeker says:

    Saffo’s attempt to make himself and council look good failed. First C. Rivenbark needs to keep his big mouth shut as he tries to silence media who have fairly reported on council’s actions. He is tired of getting caught doing his dirty business and it being reported. Too bad, voted out before and will happen again. Now back to Saffo. Check his interview out and you will observe him making the same comment several times. He struggles to make his thoughts clear as trying to cover up for previous lies it is hard to avoid revealing them. He is thick tongued, another indication of deception. He kept talking about its their job to look into this matter. I want to remind you that you are a representative of the majority of citizens and it is your job to go by our concerns which is no tax funds for a ballpark. Why pursue this matter when every poll, email comments have strongly stated no, no,no. But you go on and only one concept comes to mind, personal financial gain. Quit it before you get caught and spend some time with former Representative Wright.

Leave a Reply