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Bar owner circulating anti-smoking ban petition


It hasn't been around very long, but some bar owners say North Carolina's smoking ban is bad for business. A petition is circulating to repeal the law that prohibits smoking in bars.

Deborah Tinae owns Smitty's Tavern in Monkey Junction. Although the smoking ban has been in place for less than a month, she's seen profits slide.

Tinae has been going door to door, bar to bar, asking for signatures to help repeal the state's ban. So far, she says she has received a good response, although some have chosen not to sign. Tinae has about 2,000 signatures from all over our five-county area.

It's only been 20 days since the smoking ban took effect. Still Tinae says she realized after only two days, her business was going south.

"If it keeps going the way it is right now, we're not going to be in existance very much longer," she said. "We're going to try and hang on as long as we can, keep pounding the pavement and keep calling till someone will take notice."

Tinae plans to keep going until she has 20,000 signatures. Some bar managers downtown say they haven't really seen a decrease in their business. As for Tinae, she says its an owners right to decide what happens in their bar. She is a non-smoker.

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Smoking bans

Constitutional Amemdments regarding smoking ban that I found on the web... Interesting reading if you want to take the time...

Amendment I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Smoking is a freedom of speech i.e. personal liberty. Such bans are tantamount to precluding peaceable assemblage in that those who may choose to smoke would have to separate themselves from the assembly.
Amendment V No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Converting private property for public use refers to using property for the benefit of the population at large. To wit: condemning land for the use of building a municipal government center. The property owner will receive fair compensation.

If Government regulates the use of private property in such a way as will harm the profitability of a business located on said private property, or the fair market value of the property itself, and by such regulation declare or imply that said property is in fact public, it stands to reason that the government in the position of owing just compensation to the owner of said property.
Amendment VII In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.

In order to be compensated for business losses directly attributed to a smoking ban, business owners will have the right to demand a jury trial if such losses are in excess of $20.00

Amendment VIII Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted

Were a smoking ban to be enacted and said ban was violated by either the owner of a business or a customer of the business, such fines could be no more than a minimum fine imposed on any other minor infraction of the law. Further, any action taken by the enforcing body of the government can not be so excessive as to destroy the business itself. such action might be, but not limited to. Criminal prosecution, excessive fines, graduated fines, cancellation of food, liquor or other types of licenses or any other action that could be construed to be use of power to intimidate the private property owner or client or guest of said owner.

Amendment IX The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

The Constitution is indeed of the people, by the people and for the people. The passage of any type of ban is a “bad faith” activity. Local and state governments that pass bans violate the spirit and the intent of the Constitution. Such bans further pits the general desires of a specific group of people against the rights of the private property owner and the clients of said property owner.

Amendment X The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

The rights’ of the people are always preeminent to the powers of the government.

Amendment XIV Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

A ban of any kind by its very definition is an abridgement of the privileges of the citizens. Bans create an inequality as they would relate to the protection of the laws.

Amendment XVIII Section 1. After one year from the ratification of this article the manufacture, sale, or transportation of intoxicating liquors within, the importation thereof into, or the exportation thereof from the United States and all territory subject to the jurisdiction thereof for beverage purposes is hereby prohibited. Section 2. The Congress and the several states shall have concurrent power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by the legislatures of the several states, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the states by the Congress.

(The fact that this amendment was repealed I feel speaks to the fact that the government overstepped its bounds by ratifying an amendment that was unto itself patently unconstitutional. It further demonstrates how even as great as our Constitution is, it can still be held hostage when those who govern us lose sight of the true purpose of this document.)

Amendment XXI Section 1. The eighteenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed. Section 2. The transportation or importation into any state, territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited. Section 3. This article shall be inoperative unless it shall have been ratified as an amendment to the Constitution by conventions in the several states, as provided in the Constitution, within seven years from the date of the submission hereof to the states by the Congress

How it affects some of us....

I started bartending in Fayetteville in 1986, a job that I still do almost 24 years later. I see the impact the ban has first hand to those of us who WORK in bars. The business has been affected to extremes many of you may not realize. I see it in the register and most importantly to me, my tips. With the horrid winter we just had, who in their right mind would go to a bar to drink if they smoked? I have seen many a person who only smoke when they drink alcohol. I can't count how many times I have seen a person buy cigarettes at the bar, smoke while they were drinking and then leave the pack (not empty) on the bar when they would leave. I am all for no smoking in a resturant, but a bar?? A PRIVATE club? How can the government tell a person who is old enough to buy alcohol, they cannot indulge in another 'adult' activity...smoking , which by the way, is not illegal? They pay their club fees and abide by the rules of the PRIVATE club...we are not a resturant which is PUBLIC.
Fayetteville is a military town, full of retirees. These people are vets from the Korean, Viet Nam, Desert Storm wars along with the wars going on now, and you are going to tell them "Thanks for your sacrifices, but you can't smoke while you drink." ????? What will the government take from us next?
My dad served 30 years, he deserves to be able to sit with war buddies at a bar and not have to go outside and freeze his rear off because of some idiot dictators in our government.

Smoking Ban

I think that any OWNER of any place should be able to do what they want as long as they provide a seperate "smoke-free" area that the non-smokers dont have to walk through the smoking section to get to. Put the non smoking section in front, the smoking section in back...put a sign on your door saying WE HAVE A SMOKING SECTION and leave it at that. If you like the food and the place, stay...if not choose another place. There are different sides of the fence on everything but I believe at some point everyone wants to be happy and I think my solution here would help both sides be happy. Its a free country. everyone should have their own rights and if you pay for something and pay the taxes then you should have the right to choose if you want to have a smoking section or not. I think that it should be in two different areas, well defined and not having stupid fans blowing it this way and that. Sometimes I do enjoy not sitting in a smoking section but I am a smoker, I smoke a pack a day. I have asthma, I have clear lungs believe it or not, as well as my dad he is about to be 48. He smokes and has been smoking 2 packs a day since he was a teenager his lungs are fine. For the sake of pregnant women, elderly and for children...have a smoking and a non smoking section but LEAVE OUR COUNTRY FREE! Let people make the choice and give them strict regulations if they are gonna have a smoking section. Thats all there has to be, You dont have to ban it altogether. Telling people what to do or what not to do is what causes problems. Especially in this country. My husband and many friends fight or have fought for our freedom to do certain things and taking that away from like a kick in the face for the people who risk their lives for this country and for the people who see their loved ones die in war fighting for this country. Also...NC IS A TOBACCO STATE. We grow it, we roll it and we sell it with it or get out...tobacco is our jobs! We dont have many, if you dont like all the smoke then remove yourself from the smoke ridden state and let someone who loves it here have a chance at your job.

deal with it

North Carolina is being dragged into the modern world,most other states passed no smoking laws years ago, deal with it ignorant people!
Smoking is bad for everyone, or have you not read the warning on the pack of cigarettes.
I am grateful for the ban. In fact I may start going out to eat more since I don't have to smell unwanted smoke anymore.
I used to smoke!

"good thing we have the

"good thing we have the government to help look out for us", enter into a debate or discussion by calling people ignorant ( although they may or may not be, I can not discern that from the opinions expressed here)is a bad start. What is in fact at issue here is freedom and the American way... Capitalism and freedom. Consider this... I'm a business owner, and I allow smoking at my establishment. YOU hate that and don;t want to be there or support my business because of that ...good for you, its your money and you choice to choose where to spend as the owner, I need to evaluate is my CHOICE to allow smoking in my place good for MY business. Its really that simple...personal freedom and the free market...not what YOU think is best for every one or what the government thinks is good for every one...that's not a good path to start down...its just not...

Telling a business owner

Telling a business owner what they can and can't do in their establishment is akin to socialism. If the bar wants to be a smoking bar, then they should be allowed to be one. If you, and other non-smokers, don't like that, go to another bar. First it's smoking, next it will be fatty foods.

So what you are saying is

So what you are saying is that the law telling a business owner he/she can not physically assult me, lock me in there store against my will, force me to get undressed in public, sell drug out of thier business, operate a gambiling establishment, etc, tec, etc..... that this is ...SOCIALISM!!!!!!!

It truely pathetic how selfish, inconsiderate, and ignorant we have become. Because our parent socialized ( oh! my... wait... my parents told me what i can an cant while i was growing up... THOSE SOCIALIST!!!!!!)

Seriously people, WTF is wrong with us.. SMOKING KILLS PERIOD. No one can argue this matter any longer, and as many have pointed out in the past, your rights stop where mine begin. What all the opponents of the smoking ban are saying is that because it effects them, then they govt is infringing your rights, but the flip side of this coin is that my right to life (and a healthy one) is being infringed when im sitting in a bar having a drink and a smoker comes and sits next to me and lights up (or any of the other thousands of places people smoke). Let me guess, i should move or go somewhere that doesnt allow smoking... really? What bar do you know of that was smoke-free by choice prior to these bans?

Tell me smokers, how does it feel when non-smokers get all me, me, me, me and cause smoking bans everywhere. Maybe smokers should have thought of being more considerate of non-smokers way-back-when then perhaps non-smookers would be more considerate today. Then everyone would would be more let me be considertate of other peoples and much less me, me, me.

But hey, were Americans in the 21st century. Why should we care about others, I deserve to do whatever i want. Simplly because... well....because i say so.

Smoking Ban is BS

Smoking Ban is BS

Non-Smoker here

to be honest....I don't think they should stop smoking in BARS...however, if the bar is INSIDE a restaurant..that serves to the SHOULD BE NON SMOKING. It was so nice to walk into O'Charleys and Texas and not have to worry about a plume of smoke coming over into my food...

Smoking Ban

This lady really should have done her homework. This ban was not something that just happened, it took a long time and a lot of legislation and in that time many bars petitioned for the ban to no go through, that was the time to do the petitions, not after the bill passed. Maybe she should have paid more attention and worked harder on blocking it or turning her bar private before the start of the new year.
I personally love going out and not smelling like a cigarette when I get home.

Smoking ban

Actually, she may have very well done her homework (although I cannot speak for her or anyone else). Unfortunately, the smoking ban does not simply outlaw smoking. It is full of exemptions, definitions of where people can smoke, and what they can smoke. Private clubs are exempted, but read even further and its only restaurants. Unfortunately, this confused many businesses that originally thought they were exempt. So her petition is not necessarily a bad thing, and after all it is here right to petition.

By the way, I hate smoking, and I am not fond of being around it. I try to choose nonsmoking establishments, but it should be the businesses choice (as long as they CLEARLY post at the door if smoking is or is not allowed--that let's us non smokers know to go somewhere else and the smokers can still have a place to light up- problems solved!)

Smoking ban....

I went out for the the first time this past weekend since the smoking ban went into effect and I can tell you this...It was a much more pleasant experience and the bars that have always had crowds, continued to have crowds. The downside, was the horrible scene on the sidewalk, I mean, I don't understand why smokers not only think they have the right to smoke where ever they want, but also have the right to discard the butts wherever...It is littering people and yet, no one enforces it!!! Most restaurants don't allow you to bring in outside food, such as, you don't carry McDonalds into Port City Chop House, but if you saw 50 people out front eating McDonalds and throwing the bags on the ground just before walking in, someone would be complaining....I wish the police would actively enforce littering and help clean up downtown from the inside, out!!!!! If your bar offers something other than just a place to drink and smoke, people will still come. If that is all you had to begin with, then, thanks for playing and good luck!!!

Barbary Coast still letting

Barbary Coast still letting people smoke.

who cares

Those people are near death anyway.

She will need more than a

She will need more than a handful of counties support to get the STATE to remand a law put into place. Maybe she will find time to visit the other 95 counties in the state.

Ahem, 99 counties, there are

Ahem, 99 counties, there are 100

Did you read the story?

It says she has about 2000 signatures from our 5 county area. 100-5 = 95

please email me a copy of

please email me a copy of the petition. i own the esmond bar in esmond n.d. and at least 80% of the people that come in my bar smoke its privately owned. i sure have felt the lost of customers since 12/6/2012. my phone no. is 701-249-3591 bar 701=249-8333 home. my customers will sign the petition. my address is esmond bar llc p.o. box 5 esmond, north dakota 58332 thanks

Nope just like pointing out

Nope just like pointing out peoples errors, good for you for reading it though

Just an excuse

Like so many Americans.. Looking for an excuse to balme problems on...
If it is that important to you.. Make it a private club... That way patrons can smoke and brown bag.... Call is Smittys Somkers Club..
Now granted, you will have to either charge excededingly high membership fees to keep your doors open, or charge $5 for water and $10 for mixers... But hey.. Its Amercia.. A place where we can all blame business failures on others..

Do your homework

This is where ignorance really burns me up. Do you even know the laws regarding the sell of alcohol in this state? Are you in anyway aware of the hoops bars and restaurants have to jump through to sell liquor? First off if you sell food it has to account for 30% of your total sales to be allowed to sell liquor. If you do not sell food you HAVE to be a private club, and that has been the case for quite some time; meaning all clientele must be members and sign in every time they enter the establishment. The bar has to keep extensive records of their members and be able to present them any time a A.L.E. Agent request them or risk losing their liquor license. Now here is where it gets interesting. The A.L.E.'s definition of a private club is completely different from the smoking bans, and this is how it went so unnoticed by bars as the law was put through legislation. Many saw the "Private Club" exception and figured they would be fine; after all many had been "Private" for decades, but the exemption was for only nonprofit "Private Clubs," i.e.. Country Clubs, Elk's Lodges, etc. This is where so many got confused and did not campaign early on to prevent such a ban from being passed. In an already down economy, where many bars have already been forced to close their doors for lack of business, how can any governmental body legislate what goes on in MY private business? Part of the requirements of A.L.E. Is that every "Private Club" must have a set of bi-laws that all members must abide by to join, i.e. dress code, language, age requirements, etc. If smoking is allowed in the bar you don't have to join and moreover you don't have to be bothered by our nasty habit. I have been a bartender in this town for over ten years and I can assure you that the vast majority of my regular clientele, the ones whose tips provide for my family are smokers and none are happy about the ban. I don't presume to tell anyone else how to live their life, run their business, or how to care for their body and would very much appreciate if you would not tell me how to care for mine! Sincerely a free man in chains.

shs studies

Since 1981 there have been 148 reported studies on ETS, involving spouses, children and workplace exposure. 124 of these studies showed no significant causal relationship between second hand smoke and lung cancer. Of the 24 which showed some risk, only two had a Relative Risk Factor over 3.0 and none higher. What does this mean. To put it in perspective, Robert Temple, director of drug evaluation at the Food and Drug Administration said "My basic rule is if the relative risk isn't at least 3 or 4, forget it." The National Cancer Institute states "Relative risks of less than 2 are considered small and are usually difficult to interpret. Such increases may be due to mere chance, statistical bias, or the effect of confounding factors that are sometimes not evident." Dr. Kabat, IAQC epidemiologist states "An association is generally considered weak if the relative risk is under 3.0 and particularly when it is under 2.0, as is the case in the relationship of ETS and lung cancer. Therefore, you can see any concern of second hand smoke causing lung cancer is highly questionable." Note that the Relative Risk (RR) of lung cancer for persons drinking whole milk is 2.14 and all cancers from chlorinated water ranked at 1.25. These are higher risks than the average ETS risk. If we believe second hand smoke to be a danger for lung cancer then we should also never drink milk or chlorinated water.

I agree fully. The

I agree fully. The government has taken this too far. Isn't this supposed to be a 'free country'? I respect the fact that in eating facilities it is okay to ban smoking so that non-smokers won't be disturbed. But, in bars? That is just entirely too far. I hope she is successful in getting this stupid ban removed. She has my signature.

Yes it's a Free Country!

And we all should have SMOKE FREE AIR to breathe inside our establishments. Just take your nasty habit outside.

Oh, really?

What do you mean by "our establishments"?

Free country my cigarette butt.I pay the huge taxes on my cigarettes. This country is flying into socialism and we own nothing anymore, we rent it from the government.

I have to pay the government before I can even buy food for my family and that's after I've paid a huge tax just for earning that grocery money.

When you climb into your vehicle and start pumping exhaust into my air, just remember, you don't have to drive either.

Yes it's a Free Country

It was but not anymore since government tells you how to run your establishment. I don't buy in to the "I've got the right to go in to a restaurant and not have to smell smoke". I see it as; if you don't want to smell smoke, don't go to a place where the owner allows it. Period. Let’s stop allowing government run our lives. It's my right to own a business and cater to whomever I want. If you don't like it, don't go in it. It's that simple.

Wow so after Jan 1st your

Wow so after Jan 1st your business has declined. Surprise, surprise. Welcome to a tourist community. Wait until the spring and see if just happens to pick up and then return to normal or maybe even better than normal. Complain again next year after the holidays and let us know how the smoking ban is still hurting your business.

Smoking ban

I am glad about the smoking ban, I have seen too many loved ones die from smoking and second hand smoke. I enjoy eating out and not have to worry about getting choked by smoke and my eyes burning from it.Not to mention, ashtrays are disgusting.

smoking ban

I have found a way around the smoking ban. It's Green Smoke, an electronic cigarette. Smokers wanting their nicotine fix can "light up" almost anywhere. My Mom and I enjoyed our Green Smoke while dining at a local restaruant. Veiwers of your news casts would appreciate being told about alternitives to tobacco cigarettes.

she does not own smittys its

she does not own smittys its a frount mary smith owns smittys abc does not know this