Mayor Saffo meets with bar owners regarding military patrons

Men and women in the military can serve our country, but in downtown Wilmington, they may have a hard time getting served a drink Mayor Bill Saffo spoke to crew members from the USS North Carolina Submarine. He asked about their stay in Wilmington and discovered the sailors had a hard time getting into bars because they were in the military. The Mayor said this was unacceptable, and today he attended a meeting of The Association of Bar Owners and Restaurants Downtown to discuss the issue. Owners of some private clubs, basically bars that sell very little food, say they can not let members of the military in because of an old state law stating all patrons have to have a membership or be with a member. Right now, memberships require a three day waiting period. If club owners do not comply, they can be fined. Bar Owner & Bar Assoc. Secretary Daniel Boyle said, "It's easier for an ALE agent to pick them out of the crowd verses anybody else." To help members of the military gain access to the clubs, Mayor Saffo is working with leaders in Camp Lejune, the WPD and the Commissioner of Alcohol Beverage Control to let the service personnel sign in and have an immediate membership to the club. The bar owners say this plan is fine, as long as there is accountability for the military members' actions because they say in the past they have had problems with service member's behavior. There will be another meeting to discuss the law change next month.

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One simple question,,, Why are your bar tenders serving drinks to someone who appears to be drunk anyway??? They should be held accountable. And for those out there drinking,,, Why do you feel the need to get so tanked up and loose your self control??? In my opinion, drinking and getting drunk is not the thing to do. Too many people are hurt as a result of your actions, whether driving drunk or starting a fight as a result of your BAD choices. Grow up people........We need not have an act of Congress to resolve this issue.
Common, I will have to say that I'm a bit surprised by the position that you've taken on this one. I actually usually agree with you because you are a big proponent of responsibility for your own actions. However, it seems that in this case, it is OK for someone who has spent a year at war "defending" the United States to lack that self responsibility upon returning home! I completely disagree. You are actually saying that we should not hold them to that "higher standard" that they are usually expected to follow because they have experienced more stress than most in the previous 12 or 18 months. Also, from your previous posts, I know you are smart enough to realize that the police rarely arrest or report military members for disturbances. It's one of the benefits. It's like a police officer looking the other way when another officer is skirting the law. That would explain the lack of military discipline that results from these incidents. That brings me to several points I think we should address. First, let's look at this from a business owner's perspective. If you own a bar or restaurant downtown and it consistently serves members of our military without incident, are you going to deny them service? Of course not! In fact, you would welcome them to your establishment. On the other hand, if you consistently serve members of the military that do cause incidents in your place of business, would you deny them service? Of course you would! Is it fair that some bad apples ruin the experience for everyone else? No! But is it fair that business owners are highlighted and branded as "unpatriotic" when they must burden the cost of other people's actions? No again! However, I have a hard time believing that these business owners are denying people entrance to their establishments just because they are in the military. I would think that these owners have profit goals and reasons for the decisions that they make. In this situation, it obviously must be a problem. Second, what does their physical condition have to do with their responsibility to be gentlemen? If you haven't taken the time to notice lately, this is a beach town and there are a lot of attractive people. However, I would imagine that any man in Wilmington would be much more "intimidated" by a group of military members who are out as a group than by individual military members who are out to steal their women! In addition, when a woman says no...that's what she means! Would you feel the same if someone approached your significant other in an inappropriate way? I have my doubts. Third and getting off topic from the story by several miles, the military as a whole has not "defended" our freedom (but certainly our nation) since WWII (and that one's debatable because of our involvement). Nothing about Vietnam, the Gulf War, 9/11 or the Iraq war have threatened a single American freedom. Did anyone wake up after 9/11 and find that you had less freedom? No, but we have certainly lost some since then thanks to our government. The whole thought that we are defending our freedom is a joke! We as a country and citizens are less "free" today than we have ever been due to patriotic sympathy. No one wants to be labeled, so therefore we simply watch as the government uses terrorism as a reason to take away our individual rights. Last, before I ramble on too long (which is very tempting)...No, I'm not a bar owner and more importantly, I was a Marine! I've been there and seen it! So, as an Officer, I'm quite aware of the attitudes of our soldiers. I would advocate that we stop sending them to their deaths for another country and start holding them accountable for their actions in this one!
If you lift the private club regulations, then you will lawfully have to admit anyone who wishes to enter your establishment or face legal recourse from unsatisfied customers. I am a former bartender and bouncer from a private club downtown. The owners of the place I used to work, used the 3-day waiting period membership/valid driver's liscense or ID required, etc. as a crutch to decide who was and who wasn't allowed into the establishment. While I saw fights from both sides, had to cut people off from both sides and every other side for that matter, those instances were limited and quickly resolved as it ususally only involved one or two patrons. Since the owners were selective on who they let in, they have sustained a downtown presence for many years when countless other establishments who were not strict on who they let in have floundered. That is their right as business owners, to protect their business from threat of forseen failure when they take steps necessary to protect their investment. Call it Bar Insurance. If you are persistent Mr. Mayor on pushing this issue, be prepared to open the door to every high-society, old-money club in this town, to every person who wishes to enter. You may have kicked the hornet's nest. "Private" means private. If I do not meet the financial requirements or adhere to the HOA guidelines, can I still be allowed into the country club? If I make a million dollars, but my last name is Rodriquez, will my application for membership to the City Club be refused? If I am a female, can I be a member of Augusta National? You know the answers. Restaurants have bars, restaurants are public and are not required to have memberships. Country clubs have bars and restaurants, yet country clubs are private and require memberships. Why is that? Can't I be allowed a place to have a drink just like everyone else?
A few points in this story seem to be missed by many here. According the the story, the WPD itself admitted that Military Personnel do not make up a disproportionate amount of the problems they respond to. Yet, most of the self-proclaimed bar owners posting here claim that the military makes up 90% of their problems...and that it is all based on factual evidence. I guess we are all to assume that every 'obvious' military member is tagged and whenever a problem occurs, 9 out of 10 times, it is the fault and sole fault of the servicemember. I have lived in 5 different cities that would be considered "Military Towns". Never have I seen people not let in b/c they looked like they were in the military. Granted Wilmington is not a "military town", but I have never seen this kind of discrimination against the military, except in San Francisco and Seattle. Those are just first hand experiences. While I agree that private clubs have the right to refuse service to anyone, I do not think that extends the business the right to discriminate based on appearances. Who can honestly tell me that if we were talking about discriminating based on race that this issue would be treated the same? On the flip side, Wilmington has inadvertantly caused itself to be labeled as a Military Un-friendly town, and I think that is the real perception that Mayor Saffo is trying to fix. Yes, I am a Marine and I have had to tell my young Marines that most clubs in Wilmington do not welcome them. Most of this is based on the simple truth that a young troublemaker with a 'high and tight' is much more readily identifiable than your run-of-the-mill college student. It is sad, but true that in our society, "Perception is reality", and based on the actions of a few (comparitively speaking), the masses must suffer. I make no excuses for the problems people have experienced personally with the military in Wilmington, because I do believe we are held to a higher standard and that type of behavior is unacceptable. But I also know that my Marines worked longer, harder hours in a week than most do, and the weekends are their time to let off steam. They are, however, expected to do so in a disciplined manner. I am in no way saying young servicemembers should be treated different or special in any way, but discriminating against them when they have yet to do anything wrong is flat out disturbing. For a private club to deny entry to someone is their right, and I do not think any of this makes them unpatriotic in any way. They are merely protecting their asset as they see best. Another point that is a valid argument for the bar owners is the 3-day waiting period for a membership. Does anyone think that if this law is repealed or ammended that treatment of military patrons will change? So, while North Carolina puts up billboards professing to be "The Most Military Friendly State" in the U.S., I guess they will need a little asterik next to it clarifying that statement excludes Wilmington. As I said, "Perception is reality", and it works both ways.
I'm sorry, but where in this article does the WPD itself admit that Military Personnel do not make up a disproportionate amount of the problems they respond to? And where does it say that private club owners refused entry/service to Military members based on appearances? I'm not trying to be hard-headed, I'm really trying to understand where you got these from.
In case anyone wishes to know what I was referring to about WPD's take on problems with the military in Wilmington, it was based on a statement by Wilmington police spokeswoman Lucky Crockett. She said, "Marines are not a disproportionate cause of problems".
Seems awfully taken out of context.
As the wife of a former marine there were many times that we went downtown as a group and several of the military guys were targeted and taunted. (I know this because I was the sober babysitter). I agree that some young Military persons do have a problem with alcohol and aggressive behavior but so do a lot of young people period.
to sell alcohol to an intoxicated person? And last time I was downtown, it wasn't just military I saw intoxicated. In fact, there were many more rather raucous college-aged people who obviously weren't in the military than there were military personnel. Although all the experiences, good and bad, the military personnel go through do not by any means "excuse" any poor behavior, those experiences certainly go a long way to "explaining" it. I can't find any explanation for the non-military personnel's bad behavior.
There are state legislators who are also addressing the unfair admission policies toward the military, of drinking establishments throughout the state. So the Mayor being on this one is not so out of line, if you keep up with state politics. This discrimination against American soldiers, especially during a time when many are losing their lives for their country, is especially grievous.
ITs a shame that all members of our armed forces are being cast out due to a SMALL FEW that have caused trouble in the past. A mans stature is not created by what he does but what he is. I worked in a bar as a bouncer during my college years and I can tell you for a fact that most of the problems are not caused by those in the military. They are caused by those drunk little punks whose parents cottled them to much or not enough, cant decide which. I have had problems with some marines, very, very few marinesand very very few problems. The problem is that you can pick a marine out of a crown far easier than doped up johnny. Most all marines that I have had the pleasure of meeting have been polite, intelligent, and very respectfull. I can not say the same for college kids. Even today at a young 30 years old they still call me sir, a respect not seen anywhere else. The law was inacted by the bar owners to keep out those they deem as a high risk hazard. Change it, allow those who serve this country with pride enter you establishment, and you will see what I am talking about. Yes there are a few that will and do cause problems,BUT not as many as the general public causes.
Neither this article, nor any law, is saying that members of the military are being turned away or refused entry, or thrown out of bars for no reason. The issue here was that military members are upset that it's not easy enough for them to get into PRIVATE CLUBS AND BARS which require a MEMBERSHIP, for EVERYONE. Why, exactly, do they need to get into THESE bars or clubs? I'm not sure. There are plenty of other bars for them to frequent if they'd like. There is absolutely NO reason why they should be afforded special priviledges just because they're in the military, I'm sorry. It's just not necessary.
Marines are turned away while any college kid can walk in, show proof of age, pay his "membership fee," and walk right in without any waiting period at all. This town has been anti-marine for the past twenty-five years. It will never change. Read the remarks made right here on this board. The downtown and college crowds are simply "too cool" to hang out with military people. In some ways, we're a little slice of Berkeley or San Francisco, right here in North Carolina. I don't know why the city council doesn't ask the recruiting station to shut down. What's that? Oh yeah! The car dealers. I forgot about them. The marines are certainly welcome at the car dealers, especially right after they get back from a long deployment. They're REALLY welcome when they get back from deployment or have just re-enlisted. Well, if I had to hang out with (or depend upon) the typical downtown trash or those skin-headed mo-rines, I'll choose the latter any day. I've seen first-hand what they can do, what they DO do on a regular basis, and you people should be ashamed of the way you treat them.
Well I'm sorry, but a few bad apples do spoil the whole bunch, and if it really does happen I don't blame the bar owners at all for turning away certain people, not just military. Why should the clubs or bars have to take a risk on letting people in who have had a history of causing trouble? Just like anybody else, if the military doesn't want to be "discriminated" against, then they need to paint themselves a new image. Because right now they are doing nothing to show that they can be trusted (and I don't mean "putting their lives on the line, fighting for our country and our freedom"). I mean stop looking for and causing trouble outright. Personally, I'm sick and tired of people whining about the Military being mistreated here in Wilmington, when THEY KNOW that they're causing trouble unnecessarily. They know it WHEN their doing it, and they show no remorse for it afterwards. I've experienced it TOO many times first-hand. No sympathy here.
Okay I totally agree with the comment that you "volunteered to be in the military". So stop complaining. Don't you have bars on the base you can go to then you can try your knew tactics on your friends when you get drunk instead of going to other towns and busting up peoples livelyhoods. What is up with the Mayor? Does he have extra time on his hands that he can worry about this? Do we not have more pressing issues at hand? Please I grew up in Jacksonville and accountability for marines from Camp Lejeune is shipping them out or putting the blame on something or someone else. I have seen some bars/pubs messed up because of fights and the owners had big repairs and expenses and most of the time you don't collect any revenge back. So I think owners should have a right to not let some one in...after all PRIVATE MEMBERSHIP means that!!!!! I like what the one person said about Mayor Saffo opening up his membership at the Seaside Club at WB...it is true the rich keep the "others" out but jump on the wagon when someone else has a problem. Good job Mr. Mayor once again you have shown us what you really stand for and WHOM.
I worked as a LEO in Jacksonville where the majority of the population was military. Without the military where would the country be....are we forgetting that they die every day to protect YOU!!??? It is disgusting to see Wilmington and the bar owners get away with this. It is discrimination as blatant as it comes, evidenced by the fact that a sailor could probably get a membership because he doesn't have the "high and tight" haircut, or I'll bet the military women can certainly get it!! I worked bar fights many times and it was not always the fault of the Marines or Sailors, a lot of time it was the bikers or civilians. All young people pie-faced on alcohol are very capable of causing a serious problem. And, from what I have personally observed in the past, the civilians make smart alecky remarks to the military and thats what starts it. Seems they are a bit too insecure in their manhood to compete for women's attention in the bar scenes....truth is as truth does. I know Jacksonville had private membership bars too where military could get memberships and I think they can meet the requirement for membership and should be allowed in those establishments. I think every citizen who frequents those establishments should be proud to stand beside these men and women and have a drink.....thank them that you even have the freedom to go into a bar and drink.....in other countries you would not have that right. THINK ABOUT IT........BE FAIR
No generalizations here, huh folks? I can recall reading the same things written about Blacks. They were always starting fights and couldn't be around "civilized" people. They acted all high and mighty. Why can't they stay in their own towns? "...you'll see why we can't stand Blacks." I guess bigotry and predjudice never go out of style....the victims just change....
First of all how do you know all the post are bar owners....I know at least two people that posted comments and neither own bars nor does myself. We like to unwind and have clean, quiet fun after working all day. The last thing we want is to listen to nasty mouth people, or dodge fighting, or run for our life from a group or better yet gang of military people. And as far as going to defend our country and watching friends die well some of us do that right here. Why is it that you think the military should get a free pass....my Dad was in the military, my brother, my husband (now), my 2 brother in laws and 3 Uncles....they were and are first class guys....they all admit they got a little loud and drunk but never anything like what you see today. It is just very hard to enjoy yourself.....and the last time I checked my money is coming from the same government and country that the militarys money does....but do I get to go on base and partake of your benefits or get military discounts etc.......so stop whining grow up and act your age!!!!please! Mayor Saffo is out to get votes and stay in his little important job....which he needs to be looking at more important issues.....rest my case.......OH BY THE WAY AGAIN I AM NOT A BAR OWNER CUZ IF I WAS I WOULD NOT WANT MILITARY GANGS IN IT EITHER!
Common - you said it perfectly! Hey - I think I have suggestion for another way to use that renovated beautiful new USO Building...
Tommy I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here." The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I: O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play. I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls! For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide. Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap; An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit. Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll. We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints: Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind," But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind. You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all: We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace. For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees! **************************************** Obviously Rudyard Kipling had a clear appreciation of the military's service and the ingratitude displayed by some of the protected. I challenge any one of you whiners to go get shot at for a year, see your friends killed right in front of you, have to take so many men's lives that you lose count, and then not get a little bit large when you get back to civilization. Even when here, safe at home, they do more before you get out of bed than you will do all day. They hit on your girls? They try to join your conversations? BOO-friggin'-HOO! I'm sure no civilians ever try that! Yes...what woman could possibly be interested in a clean-cut guy who's in great shape and has a full time job/career that pays fairly well? A guy who has seen a lot of the world and knows life's highs and lows, and adrenaline rushes you can't even imagine. A guy who has come to appreciate every single minute of every single day. (Far better to set your sights on that bleached-hair surfer pothead that has worked himself up to assistant night manager at Pizza Hut, sweety.) Of course, they are human and not perfect. So if they act superior, perhaps they are guilty of comparing themselves to the average male pickings you find in the downtown bars! They don't have to use daddy's money to buy a drink, or wait for you to buy one for them. So keep on "not standing them," keep on wishing they'd stay in Jacksonville, but never lose site of the fact that THEY are out there laying their lives on the line for YOU.
First, dont pull that you are unpatriotic if you dont allow the Marines into the bar crap. I support the Military fully, with the highest regards and respect. I am thankful for all that they do, in peace and in war, and I am glad that there is someone that is willing to go over there and do a job, for minimal pay and gratitude, that I may not be able to do. But, there is alot more to this story than unpatriotic bar owners. I hate to break it to you but these owners are right. 90% of these serviceman cause problems. They throw it in your face that they "serve our country", that they "fight for our freedom" and basically answer to a higher authority than us Civillians. I would never go out of my way to arrest an active duty member or a Veteran if I could help it and most LEO's are the same way. It is kind of an unwritten rule. These guy's get so many chances on any given Fri and Sat night that it is pathetic, if not unethical on our parts, how many chances they get. The reason that there is no eveidence that these Military guy's are not causing problems is because the POLICE look the other way 9 times out of 10. I have litterally caught 5 Marines lined up along a wall , peeing on some business, knowing if I cite or arrest the hassle they will have with the Base(much less having to drive back to Wilmington or hire Lawyers). Don't lecture me about being "unfriendly" to our servicemen. Don't get that higher and mighty attitude towards me, or anyone else working down there, when it come to be tollerant of thier behavior. I'm not sure how many people who read and post on this site go downtown on the weekend but if you want to see something interesting go down to Front St. one night around 1 AM and hang out until 3 and just watch. I would have to say that most people in this town have no clue whats really going on down there. It's nuts. I respect these guys so much, but belive me, for every well behaved Military Man there are 15 drunk, out of control, aggressive Marines making a bad name for the rest. Before the Camp Lejeune Officials condem the Bar owners maybe they need to come out and do a ride-a-long with the WPD or ALE for a few weekends. It was not that long ago that the Lejeune Provost Marshall banned thier personel from coming down here due to the problems they were getting into (5 years ago maybe).
I don't have a problem with them coming to the local bars and trying to dance with or pick up women. What I have a problem with, and have witnessed on numerous occasions (I used to hang out at the downtown bars a LOT), is that they'll try to pick up a girl, she'll say no, and they don't want to take no for an answer. When the girl's boyfriend or just some other guy that's with her group says something to the marine, as they should, the drunken marine tries to start a fight. This always seems to happen when they marines are out in a group. You can see their buddies laughing because they got shot down by the girl, and then they have to prove their manliness or something by beating up some random civilian.
So, in your world, it's OK for anyone to go into a bar and trash it, start fights, make everyone uncomfortable, just for fun? Oh right, only if they are people who have been through tough times, who put their lives on the line for us? Which, of course, is only people in the military. So, they're protecting us? So, they're fighting FOR us, so they can fight us? Gotcha... I'm with ya now, thanks for clarifying. You're absolutely right. And while we're at it, there really should be no punishment for anyone who murders someone if they've been through hell. Right? I bet there's a lot of people who have witnessed their own mother's or sisters getting beaten, raped, killed right in front of them. And I think it's only fair that they be allowed to seek revenge for that; fight, murder until it doesn't hurt anymore. Really, why do you think that because of anyone's career, or what they've been through, that they should be allowed special privileges? I say, that if you aren't stable enough to handle the fact that, yes, you WILL see your friends killed in front of you, then DON'T JOIN THE MILITARY if you can't control yourselves back home and if you're going to use that as an excuse to be belligerant and speak all high and mighty! Now read this again until it sinks in.
You want them elevated to a higher standard on the one hand, but don't want us to hold them to it on another. Which is it? You can't have it both ways, my friend. The bottom line is that if the good military folks frequenting bars want to be welcome en masse, then they should behave themselves en masse. Then you wouldn't have people griping about it. Or heck, maybe a new niche has been uncovered. Let's have a private club just for the military folks. See how that works for them.
They evidently act "all high and mighty".... It's too bad they can't stay in Jacksonville and stop hitting on our women.... Just watch and you'll see why we can't stand the military..... Gee....I wonder if it's the military that starts all the fights, or if they're simply reacting to the predjudice and bigotry being displayed against them. I remember the three that accidently wandered into Micky Ratz one night a long time ago, and within minutes they were in the fight of their lives. It took a jury trial to prove that THEY were the accosted. BTW, if you are the least bit familiar with The Uniform Code of Military Justice, you know that they can get their butts handed to them for getting in trouble out in town. They are actually held to a much HIGHER standard, and will pay a far more severe punishment than any civilian court will impose if the military gets involved....and any time civilian law enforcement arrests or detains a military member, the military is involved. Let's be totally honest here. They probably shouldn't bother coming to Wilmington at all. It's pretty obvious that they are persona non grata in Wilmington. The local girls don't consider them "cool," and the local males can't stand the competition and intimidation. They should probably keep their big, fat, "I've been deployed for a year and saving my money" wallets in Jacksonville, and not spend one penny of it in Wilmington....ANYWHERE in Wilmington. I work in Jacksonville on occasion, and will remind all I speak with that when they're going to drop $10, 20, or 30k on a new motorcycle or pickup, there are plenty of dealers in Jacksonville. Come to think of it, there are plenty of bars in Jacksonville too, and they're always welcome there. So do you think their conduct is much better there....or are the Wilmington locals a bunch of sissies and prima donnas who consider themselves too superior to rub elbows with military swine?
If you want the truth, experience tells me that the standards in J'ville are just lower. The military *is* the local economy there, so rowdy behavior is just tolerated on a level that won't be here in Wilmington, where the market caters to the college set. I think people object to "swine" of any sort. The military folks are being picked on here because we generally expect more of them because most people *do want* to hold them in high esteem, not because they already don't.
It seems to me that there are bigger problems in this town that the mayor should be addressing. I guess he must be feeling really patriotic after July 4th...
The only posts on this page that are anti-military are from bar owners and their staff... Why don't you move to another country where you don't worry about your freedom and can have your communistic views. Men that have died in Iraq have been refused entry into Wilmington establishments and were prejudiced against because they were in the military. They may not have even been drinking but you judged them anyway. Men that spilt their blood for this country.. for YOUR freedom in a war they DON'T want to be in, and this is the selfish thanks you give them. You people make me sick and you should be ashamed for being so outspokenly full of hate prejudice for someone who puts their lives on the line for your freedom every day of their lives because that is the job they chose to do… I bet you didn't feel that way after 9-1-1 and by the looks of the grammatical errors; many of you should become educated about what it is servicemen go through and put on the line for YOUR freedom.
The "prejudiced" remarks here would only be such if they were based off of unfounded stereotypes. But they're not, there is clear, factual evidence to show that the majority of the problems with malicious disturbances in the bars downtown arise from the military crowd. No one here downplays the honor that those in the military deserve for their patriotism or what they risk when they're on the battlefield. But like it has been said, you don't see any other groups who put their lives on the line every day causing trouble like the military does on a consitent basis. Those are the facts, and they can't be denied. Don't believe it? 2am, Saturday after the bars close, outside just about any bar downtown. See who it is the police are trying to get under control.
Get real, "MilitaryWelcome". That post was a little too hate-filled. I think you're missing the point. No one is saying that they don't appreciate what these men do in the military. But understand that that does NOT make it OK for them to come out in large groups and bully people. My party was out on July 4th having a great time as always - until we ran into a pack of these guys from Lejeune. The girls in our group were very uncomfortable and the guys, myself included, just had to turn our heads and walk away from a very belligerent and menacing group of guys who wanted to start a fight and in all honesty would have probably roughed us up good. Serving your country is admirable but in my opinion it should not entitle you to go around bullying people in large groups of angry, horny, caged warriors. Some of these guys were saying some really mean stuff, trying to incite a fight! Easy killers, same team! Behave, guys...or just go hang out in J'ville or Raleigh, somewhere other than here. I have met plenty of Marines who I hold in high regard; guys who are great representatives for their organization; men who impress me with their strength, maturity, tact, respect for others, and financial stability. So why are so many of the others going out acting like jerks?