Mayor Saffo meets with bar owners regarding military patrons

One simple question,,, Why are your bar tenders serving drinks to someone who appears to be drunk anyway??? They should be held accountable. And for those out there drinking,,, Why do you feel the need to get so tanked up and loose your self control??? In my opinion, drinking and getting drunk is not the thing to do. Too many people are hurt as a result of your actions, whether driving drunk or starting a fight as a result of your BAD choices. Grow up people........We need not have an act of Congress to resolve this issue.

Common, I will have to say that I'm a bit surprised by the position that you've taken on this one. I actually usually agree with you because you are a big proponent of responsibility for your own actions. However, it seems that in this case, it is OK for someone who has spent a year at war "defending" the United States to lack that self responsibility upon returning home! I completely disagree. You are actually saying that we should not hold them to that "higher standard" that they are usually expected to follow because they have experienced more stress than most in the previous 12 or 18 months. Also, from your previous posts, I know you are smart enough to realize that the police rarely arrest or report military members for disturbances. It's one of the benefits. It's like a police officer looking the other way when another officer is skirting the law. That would explain the lack of military discipline that results from these incidents. That brings me to several points I think we should address. First, let's look at this from a business owner's perspective. If you own a bar or restaurant downtown and it consistently serves members of our military without incident, are you going to deny them service? Of course not! In fact, you would welcome them to your establishment. On the other hand, if you consistently serve members of the military that do cause incidents in your place of business, would you deny them service? Of course you would! Is it fair that some bad apples ruin the experience for everyone else? No! But is it fair that business owners are highlighted and branded as "unpatriotic" when they must burden the cost of other people's actions? No again! However, I have a hard time believing that these business owners are denying people entrance to their establishments just because they are in the military. I would think that these owners have profit goals and reasons for the decisions that they make. In this situation, it obviously must be a problem. Second, what does their physical condition have to do with their responsibility to be gentlemen? If you haven't taken the time to notice lately, this is a beach town and there are a lot of attractive people. However, I would imagine that any man in Wilmington would be much more "intimidated" by a group of military members who are out as a group than by individual military members who are out to steal their women! In addition, when a woman says no...that's what she means! Would you feel the same if someone approached your significant other in an inappropriate way? I have my doubts. Third and getting off topic from the story by several miles, the military as a whole has not "defended" our freedom (but certainly our nation) since WWII (and that one's debatable because of our involvement). Nothing about Vietnam, the Gulf War, 9/11 or the Iraq war have threatened a single American freedom. Did anyone wake up after 9/11 and find that you had less freedom? No, but we have certainly lost some since then thanks to our government. The whole thought that we are defending our freedom is a joke! We as a country and citizens are less "free" today than we have ever been due to patriotic sympathy. No one wants to be labeled, so therefore we simply watch as the government uses terrorism as a reason to take away our individual rights. Last, before I ramble on too long (which is very tempting)...No, I'm not a bar owner and more importantly, I was a Marine! I've been there and seen it! So, as an Officer, I'm quite aware of the attitudes of our soldiers. I would advocate that we stop sending them to their deaths for another country and start holding them accountable for their actions in this one!

If you lift the private club regulations, then you will lawfully have to admit anyone who wishes to enter your establishment or face legal recourse from unsatisfied customers. I am a former bartender and bouncer from a private club downtown. The owners of the place I used to work, used the 3-day waiting period membership/valid driver's liscense or ID required, etc. as a crutch to decide who was and who wasn't allowed into the establishment. While I saw fights from both sides, had to cut people off from both sides and every other side for that matter, those instances were limited and quickly resolved as it ususally only involved one or two patrons. Since the owners were selective on who they let in, they have sustained a downtown presence for many years when countless other establishments who were not strict on who they let in have floundered. That is their right as business owners, to protect their business from threat of forseen failure when they take steps necessary to protect their investment. Call it Bar Insurance. If you are persistent Mr. Mayor on pushing this issue, be prepared to open the door to every high-society, old-money club in this town, to every person who wishes to enter. You may have kicked the hornet's nest. "Private" means private. If I do not meet the financial requirements or adhere to the HOA guidelines, can I still be allowed into the country club? If I make a million dollars, but my last name is Rodriquez, will my application for membership to the City Club be refused? If I am a female, can I be a member of Augusta National? You know the answers. Restaurants have bars, restaurants are public and are not required to have memberships. Country clubs have bars and restaurants, yet country clubs are private and require memberships. Why is that? Can't I be allowed a place to have a drink just like everyone else?

A few points in this story seem to be missed by many here. According the the story, the WPD itself admitted that Military Personnel do not make up a disproportionate amount of the problems they respond to. Yet, most of the self-proclaimed bar owners posting here claim that the military makes up 90% of their problems...and that it is all based on factual evidence. I guess we are all to assume that every 'obvious' military member is tagged and whenever a problem occurs, 9 out of 10 times, it is the fault and sole fault of the servicemember. I have lived in 5 different cities that would be considered "Military Towns". Never have I seen people not let in b/c they looked like they were in the military. Granted Wilmington is not a "military town", but I have never seen this kind of discrimination against the military, except in San Francisco and Seattle. Those are just first hand experiences. While I agree that private clubs have the right to refuse service to anyone, I do not think that extends the business the right to discriminate based on appearances. Who can honestly tell me that if we were talking about discriminating based on race that this issue would be treated the same? On the flip side, Wilmington has inadvertantly caused itself to be labeled as a Military Un-friendly town, and I think that is the real perception that Mayor Saffo is trying to fix. Yes, I am a Marine and I have had to tell my young Marines that most clubs in Wilmington do not welcome them. Most of this is based on the simple truth that a young troublemaker with a 'high and tight' is much more readily identifiable than your run-of-the-mill college student. It is sad, but true that in our society, "Perception is reality", and based on the actions of a few (comparitively speaking), the masses must suffer. I make no excuses for the problems people have experienced personally with the military in Wilmington, because I do believe we are held to a higher standard and that type of behavior is unacceptable. But I also know that my Marines worked longer, harder hours in a week than most do, and the weekends are their time to let off steam. They are, however, expected to do so in a disciplined manner. I am in no way saying young servicemembers should be treated different or special in any way, but discriminating against them when they have yet to do anything wrong is flat out disturbing. For a private club to deny entry to someone is their right, and I do not think any of this makes them unpatriotic in any way. They are merely protecting their asset as they see best. Another point that is a valid argument for the bar owners is the 3-day waiting period for a membership. Does anyone think that if this law is repealed or ammended that treatment of military patrons will change? So, while North Carolina puts up billboards professing to be "The Most Military Friendly State" in the U.S., I guess they will need a little asterik next to it clarifying that statement excludes Wilmington. As I said, "Perception is reality", and it works both ways.

As the wife of a former marine there were many times that we went downtown as a group and several of the military guys were targeted and taunted. (I know this because I was the sober babysitter). I agree that some young Military persons do have a problem with alcohol and aggressive behavior but so do a lot of young people period.

to sell alcohol to an intoxicated person? And last time I was downtown, it wasn't just military I saw intoxicated. In fact, there were many more rather raucous college-aged people who obviously weren't in the military than there were military personnel. Although all the experiences, good and bad, the military personnel go through do not by any means "excuse" any poor behavior, those experiences certainly go a long way to "explaining" it. I can't find any explanation for the non-military personnel's bad behavior.

There are state legislators who are also addressing the unfair admission policies toward the military, of drinking establishments throughout the state. So the Mayor being on this one is not so out of line, if you keep up with state politics. This discrimination against American soldiers, especially during a time when many are losing their lives for their country, is especially grievous.

ITs a shame that all members of our armed forces are being cast out due to a SMALL FEW that have caused trouble in the past. A mans stature is not created by what he does but what he is. I worked in a bar as a bouncer during my college years and I can tell you for a fact that most of the problems are not caused by those in the military. They are caused by those drunk little punks whose parents cottled them to much or not enough, cant decide which. I have had problems with some marines, very, very few marinesand very very few problems. The problem is that you can pick a marine out of a crown far easier than doped up johnny. Most all marines that I have had the pleasure of meeting have been polite, intelligent, and very respectfull. I can not say the same for college kids. Even today at a young 30 years old they still call me sir, a respect not seen anywhere else. The law was inacted by the bar owners to keep out those they deem as a high risk hazard. Change it, allow those who serve this country with pride enter you establishment, and you will see what I am talking about. Yes there are a few that will and do cause problems,BUT not as many as the general public causes.

Okay I totally agree with the comment that you "volunteered to be in the military". So stop complaining. Don't you have bars on the base you can go to then you can try your knew tactics on your friends when you get drunk instead of going to other towns and busting up peoples livelyhoods. What is up with the Mayor? Does he have extra time on his hands that he can worry about this? Do we not have more pressing issues at hand? Please I grew up in Jacksonville and accountability for marines from Camp Lejeune is shipping them out or putting the blame on something or someone else. I have seen some bars/pubs messed up because of fights and the owners had big repairs and expenses and most of the time you don't collect any revenge back. So I think owners should have a right to not let some one in...after all PRIVATE MEMBERSHIP means that!!!!! I like what the one person said about Mayor Saffo opening up his membership at the Seaside Club at WB...it is true the rich keep the "others" out but jump on the wagon when someone else has a problem. Good job Mr. Mayor once again you have shown us what you really stand for and WHOM.

No generalizations here, huh folks? I can recall reading the same things written about Blacks. They were always starting fights and couldn't be around "civilized" people. They acted all high and mighty. Why can't they stay in their own towns? "...you'll see why we can't stand Blacks." I guess bigotry and predjudice never go out of style....the victims just change....

First of all how do you know all the post are bar owners....I know at least two people that posted comments and neither own bars nor does myself. We like to unwind and have clean, quiet fun after working all day. The last thing we want is to listen to nasty mouth people, or dodge fighting, or run for our life from a group or better yet gang of military people. And as far as going to defend our country and watching friends die well some of us do that right here. Why is it that you think the military should get a free pass....my Dad was in the military, my brother, my husband (now), my 2 brother in laws and 3 Uncles....they were and are first class guys....they all admit they got a little loud and drunk but never anything like what you see today. It is just very hard to enjoy yourself.....and the last time I checked my money is coming from the same government and country that the militarys money does....but do I get to go on base and partake of your benefits or get military discounts etc.......so stop whining grow up and act your age!!!!please! Mayor Saffo is out to get votes and stay in his little important job....which he needs to be looking at more important issues.....rest my case.......OH BY THE WAY AGAIN I AM NOT A BAR OWNER CUZ IF I WAS I WOULD NOT WANT MILITARY GANGS IN IT EITHER!

Common - you said it perfectly! Hey - I think I have suggestion for another way to use that renovated beautiful new USO Building...

Tommy I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer, The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here." The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die, I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I: O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away"; But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play, The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play, O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play. I went into a theatre as sober as could be, They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me; They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls, But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls! For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside"; But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide, The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide, O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide. Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap; An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit. Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?" But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll, The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll, O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll. We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too, But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you; An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints: Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints; While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind," But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind, There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind, O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind. You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all: We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational. Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace. For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!" But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot; An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please; But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees! **************************************** Obviously Rudyard Kipling had a clear appreciation of the military's service and the ingratitude displayed by some of the protected. I challenge any one of you whiners to go get shot at for a year, see your friends killed right in front of you, have to take so many men's lives that you lose count, and then not get a little bit large when you get back to civilization. Even when here, safe at home, they do more before you get out of bed than you will do all day. They hit on your girls? They try to join your conversations? BOO-friggin'-HOO! I'm sure no civilians ever try that! Yes...what woman could possibly be interested in a clean-cut guy who's in great shape and has a full time job/career that pays fairly well? A guy who has seen a lot of the world and knows life's highs and lows, and adrenaline rushes you can't even imagine. A guy who has come to appreciate every single minute of every single day. (Far better to set your sights on that bleached-hair surfer pothead that has worked himself up to assistant night manager at Pizza Hut, sweety.) Of course, they are human and not perfect. So if they act superior, perhaps they are guilty of comparing themselves to the average male pickings you find in the downtown bars! They don't have to use daddy's money to buy a drink, or wait for you to buy one for them. So keep on "not standing them," keep on wishing they'd stay in Jacksonville, but never lose site of the fact that THEY are out there laying their lives on the line for YOU.

It seems to me that there are bigger problems in this town that the mayor should be addressing. I guess he must be feeling really patriotic after July 4th...

The only posts on this page that are anti-military are from bar owners and their staff... Why don't you move to another country where you don't worry about your freedom and can have your communistic views. Men that have died in Iraq have been refused entry into Wilmington establishments and were prejudiced against because they were in the military. They may not have even been drinking but you judged them anyway. Men that spilt their blood for this country.. for YOUR freedom in a war they DON'T want to be in, and this is the selfish thanks you give them. You people make me sick and you should be ashamed for being so outspokenly full of hate prejudice for someone who puts their lives on the line for your freedom every day of their lives because that is the job they chose to do… I bet you didn't feel that way after 9-1-1 and by the looks of the grammatical errors; many of you should become educated about what it is servicemen go through and put on the line for YOUR freedom.