WILMINGTON -- A number of college campus shootings over the past year have many UNCW students concerned. Some of those students want people with gun permits to be able to carry their guns on campus. Interested students want to join more than 25,000 people who are part of the national organization Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.
Fatal shootings at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University are examples of why UNCW student Tyler Millage and others want concealed weapons allowed on campus. Millage said, "In the hands of responsible citizens, there's no danger from handguns."
Millage is spearheading an effort for the organization Students for Concealed Carry on Campus to be recognized as an official campus group. The group's mission is to allow people at least 21 years-old who have concealed carry permits to have their guns on them when on UNCW's campus, which is currently illegal.
"Part of the beauty of concealed carry is that you don't have to carry to be protected by it. Other people can be carrying and they can protect you in an emergency situation," Millage said.
Those in favor said campus would be safer. Those opposed, like David Dangelico and Aaron Ward, said they'd feel anything but safe. Dangelico said, "I'd feel more concerned about the person next to me, you know, if he's carrying a handgun in his bag and if I say something wrong to him and he's not exactly having the best day, if something could go wrong."
Ward said, "I don't really think allowing more guns in the hands of students is going to necessarily protect us more. We already have an able-bodied police force on campus to deal with this threat."
Millage said in the campus shootings that have happened, like at Virginia Tech, school police haven't responded quickly enough. He said, "If just one person in Norris Hall had had a handgun, they could have stopped it before 30 people had been killed in that one building alone."
According to Millage, about 30 students have expressed an interest and in the fall the group will present its case to a review committee made up of five faculty members and five students.
As a university community, we respect the right of our students to express their positions on issues, including campus safety and security, which is an issue of vital importance to all of us. While allowing students to carry guns might appear to some individuals to be an option in deterring violence on campuses, it brings with it additional concerns for safety. One concern is the level of training and proficiency of the person carrying the weapon, including his or her ability to use it effectively and retain the weapon in a crisis situation. Many gun owners have been killed or injured with their own weapons while attempting an intervention. A second concern is the tactical complexity of introducing multiple weapons to a police emergency, which significantly elevates the probability that a well meaning citizen may be mistaken as an aggressor. Having multiple people carrying and using weapons during a situation such as an active shooter attack causes confusion about who is actually the perpetrator, which may result in additional injuries. We believe that there are other approaches and solutions to increasing campus safety and security that are more effective than allowing the proliferation of weapons on campus.
The best protection for any potential emergency is to be informed and aware. It is important to have a plan in place in advance to deal with crisis situations. A plan involving options on what a person can do to escape, where to hide (if escape is not an option), who to notify and where to rally with co-workers or classmates when the “all clear” is given are all points that need to be considered. UNCW Police offers “community response to violent situations” workshops to assist students, faculty and staff with how to plan and deal with a violent situation on campus, which cover areas of law enforcement response and familiarization with campus-wide emergency notification systems. Students are also encouraged to report any suspicious individuals or activity to UNCW Police and to be vigilant about security measures, such as not allowing unauthorized persons to enter locked residence halls.
POLL QUESTION:
Who says those with
Who says those with concealed carry permits aren't a threat. Look at this story from FOX News
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353438,00.html
No!
No, there should be no weapons on a school campus!!!!!!!!!!!!
Concerned Citizen
Here's an idea
I have a great idea (not really). I called WPD and they advised me that it is not illegal to carry a weapon visibly on your body as long as it is in a holster. If you pull it out of the holster is is considered brandishing a weapon. So, why not allow students to just carry a sidearm on their hip. This way a gunman will know students are armed and it will deter them from attacking the campus. If it's not illegal to walk downtown toting a handgun on your hip, why not allow students to do the same in the classroom? It would serve the same purpose, if not more so, than having students carry concealed
Not a good idea
Yep, that works until somebody feels threatened and you are arrested and charged with going armed to the terror of the public.
6.Going Armed To The Terror Of The People
By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court has said that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.
My comment was actually a
My comment was actually a joke...BUT, according to what you wrote it states that you must arm himself with unusual and dangerous weapons, FOR THE PURPOSE OF TERRIFYING OTHERS, and go on public highways in a MANNER TO CAUSE TERROR TO OTHERS. Just because I have a weapon on my hip doesn't mean I am doing it for the purpose of terrifying others or in a manner to cause terror
Personally, I think the whole issue of having weapons on campus is a bad idea
doesn't matter
Even if it is just a pistol in a holster and some bedwetting liberal feels the least bit threatened or fearful, you have met the requirments for being armed to the terror of the public.
NC Firearms Laws
Go to page 26, item 6.
So, if I am driving down the
So, if I am driving down the road and stop at a red light, a person looks into my car and sees a handgun sitting on the passenger seat and gets scared I am now in trouble?
I understand what you are saying, but things can go either way. There is no law that says you cannot walk downtown with a gun in a holster on your hip. If the police want to get you off the street with that weapon, they will find a way.
As a UNCW student who lives
As a UNCW student who lives on campus, I don't feel completely safe here now bc of what has happened at other colleges. However, I think i would feel even less safe knowing students around me were allowed to have concealed weapons. Yeah, most of them probably would have the gun with them for good intentions; but, all it would take is for that one student who had a permit to conceal a gun to decide to shoot up the school and be allowed to bring his or her gun on campus and do so. UNCW police are everywhere and they don't put up with any junk; leave it up to them. But one thing that does need to happen...teachers should be required to lock the classroom door when class starts! You'd think that would already be taking place here, but it's not.
You said "all it would take
You said "all it would take is for that one student who had a permit to conceal a gun to decide to shoot up the school and be allowed to bring his or her gun on campus and do so"
So are you trying to say that the so-called "gun free zone" has actually stopped school shootings? When a mentally unstable person decides to go "shoot up the school" do you really think a "gun free zone" sign is going to make them say "Gee, I guess I can't do it here"
In gun free zones, only the criminals & the Police have guns. Everyone else are disarmed law abiding citizens rolling the dice to see if they too will become victims to muggers, murderers, or rapists.
You said "all it would take
You said "all it would take is for that one student who had a permit to conceal a gun to decide to shoot up the school and be allowed to bring his or her gun on campus and do so"
So are you trying to say that the so-called "gun free zone" has actually stopped school shootings? When a mentally unstable person decides to go "shoot up the school" do you really think a "gun free zone" sign is going to make them say "Gee, I guess I can't do it here"
In gun free zones, only the criminals & the Police have guns. Everyone else are disarmed law abiding citizens rolling the dice to see if they too will become victims to muggers, murderers, or rapists.
Camera Guns
We should have security cameras with guns attached so that if a criminal or crazy student is shooting up the place someone in a control room can zoom in and fire. It would be even better if they were web cams so that anyone with a computer can help to identify and kill suspected shooters in the school. We would absolutely need a certification program for that but thanks to the internet, we could take care of that on line and in less than an hour. Plus, with the availability of Wifi on campus, people could log in on their iPod touch or wireless laptop and we would have real time total coverage too!
Guns on campus
Unbelievable! These stupid students should all be expelled for just being dumb. America is such a messed up place when people think having a gun is ok. Get a life people!
Think about it. A non-law
Think about it. A non-law abiding person will bring a gun to school anyways. Why not allow those who are LAWFUL citizens to carry on campus and be able to defend your sorry ass in case there is a shooting at your school.
They canot think
They cannot think that far ahead.
As liberals, they see things in the most pessimistic light and never in the best circumstance. No matter how fast the cops could get there.
Pro's with guns beats criminals anytime they don't KNOW they have the edge. And students on campus with training and guns would prevent criminals from knowingly selecting those on campus at random for safe VICTIMS of their crimes.
Don't argue this, just what you learned in statistics class. Sooner or later you're going to lose. And criminals hate to lose. So they don't act. It's PREVENTATIVE.
After a couple lose the cost become too great too play the game.
And if you still hate this thought. You are irrational. And you would be the next dead criminal.
Move to Australia, no gun rights there
Unbelievable! Someone in this country of ours has forgotten what are Rights that are granted to citizens by the Constitution!
You should be expelled from the country for being ignorant of simple history lessons.
America is such a messed up place where people like you can exist and think it's not ok for law abiding people can have guns.
Get a life person!
(The fact that you would not even give a hint of your name implies that you are not capable of standing up for fear of being identified by others that might think you are totally the village idiot.)
Do What?
I am replying to the comment that said that America is a messed up place when people think they can have guns. Of course its ok to have guns. Ever heard of the 2nd Amendment? "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Thats what it says. It doesn't say we can only have certain arms or carry them in certain places, it says our right to keep and bear shall not be infringed. So YES of course it's ok to have guns as long as one does not abuse them!
Guns on campus
without a doubt YES YES YES, it has been shown time and time again that gun free zones make easy victims, any law abiding citizen/student with the CCW should be able to carry a firearm to protect himself and others, how can some people think that by banning guns on campus, criminals are going to obey that law????....let people defend themselves....it's the second amendment baby....
training
Anyone who wishes to carry a gun should train and get training; this is good. YOU VILL REGITER VITH THE REIGHT is a bit over the top for this country.
These students wish to act like a free people and be secure in their persons. They are not farm animals to be tagged. Escape and evade is always good. But there are times when shooting back is best. It happens every day.
God's Speed to Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. They are doing the work we elders should have done a generation ago.
MORE Guns in Classrooms needed
So why the heck not. As for the keystone university cops not being able to tell good guy from bad guy Im not sure they can do it anyway. Look at how Curtis Dixon* was allowed entrance to the school. Look at how John Peck* was allowed entrance to the school. Look at how BOTH of them were allowed to continue on campus even after reports of stalking and threats. These liberal dooches dont even carry a gun they pay sid causey to do all the heavy work, lame panties boys.
Anytime im on campus, or anywhere ill be protected. Im not counting on anyone especially the UNCW keystone cops.
* just dawned on me you have no idea who these two killers are because no one mentions them or their victims on campus. But they killed UNCW students Kristin Najoks and Jessica Faulkner. They were admitted for enrollement even though they have criminal records that in one case included kidnapping, rape and forcing a gun down the throat of a victim PRIOR to being admitted for enrollment. Of course his daddy worked for the sheriffs department and the other dirtbag worked for the UNCC chancleor as provost.
Dang all this has gotten me thinking i need two guns
just make school's accountable and safer
It is the school place to make it safer, If you notice most of the killing are students so now give the right to have a gun, I have said here before. they shouldn't be able to get in the building. and parents start at home. Know what your kids are doing, I know when they are college age the aren't living at home, but parents have to be parents and we would help each other instead bullying people and just giving kids everything they might turn out better people
Not a good idea
IF....they decide to allow students to carry weapons on campus, those students should first have to register with the campus police. There should also be extra yearly training. In order to get your concealed weapons permit, sure you have to take a class. But what exactly does that class prove? NOTHING. I have my permit and carry almost everywhere. But the class does nothing to prove how well you can shoot. We had to shoot at a target and follow orders, but there was no minimum score we had to reach. You just had to show that you knew how to use the gun. Those that carry should have to "qualify" with the exact weapon they will carry and maintain a minimum score, just like LEO.
Personally, I am against it. I think it would cause more confusion during a crisis. It will probably take LEO that much longer to enter a building because they will have no idea who is the bad guy and who is just carrying a weapon. I also think most people will freeze at the last minute. It's easy to say you won't, but you never know how you will react until the situation arises. Plus, it's not easy to shoot at someone that is shooting back. And you missing your target could easily cause more injuries
LEO confused?
WilmMan said: "It will probably take LEO that much longer to enter a building because they will have no idea who is the bad guy and who is just carrying a weapon."
This is a popular talking point with absolutely zero basis in fact. Although people conceal carry in more than 40 States there has not been a single example of this made up scenario.
The fact is that Police always have to be on the lookout for armed citizens, undercover officers, and off duty officers. They have very specific protocol to go through when they encounter someone with a gun.
They will order the person with a gun to drop the weapon. If it is a good citizen he or she will obey. Otherwise it will be the shooter who will either run, shoot him or herself, or start shooting at the Officers.
Additionally, FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute. Since the Police will be minutes away at best they'll probably arrive to either find the shooter subdued, or the armed citizen among those lying on the ground.
School shootings last less than a minute???
Dustin wrote: "Additionally, FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute. Since the Police will be minutes away at best they'll probably arrive to either find the shooter subdued, or the armed citizen among those lying on the ground."
As a smart college student, as you seem, you know very well that you can make stastics say anything you want. When you talk about gun fights, are the drive by shootings included? How about the drug deal that went bad and someone got shot? What about the domestic situation where the husband kills his wife and maybe himself?
If you are going to give stats, I want to know stats and how they relate to the situation at hand. If you are going to talk about school shootings, I want to know exactly how many of the school shootings lasted under a minute? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any
Police envolved gun fights
It was a compilation by the FBI of duration of officer involved gun fights - from the point the officer begins shooting at an armed criminal who is shooting back, until the gun fight is over. To be a gun fight both the officer & a criminal need to be armed with guns & shooting at each other. So no, drive by shootings, drug deals gone bad, murders, etc, would not be included.
Dustin...which is it???
Dustin wrote: "Additionally, FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute. Since the Police will be minutes away at best they'll probably arrive to either find the shooter subdued, or the armed citizen among those lying on the ground."
Dustn, you wrote that a couple posts up. Then you say the stats are from gun fights involving the police. So which is...gunfights themselves only last a minute and therefore the police are too late, or the gunfights involve the police and they only last a minute. Either way, you are throwing comments out that don't fit your arguements
Worded poorly
I apologize for wording it poorly. Rather than saying "FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute" I should have said "FBI statistics show that most Police Officer involved gunfights last well less than a minute."
I'm not aware of any statistics covering how long average CCW permit holder involved gun fights last. Even if they were to last twice as long (less than 2 minutes rather than less than 1 minute) the gun fight would still likely be over before the Police arrive in most cases, since the average Police arrival time in most areas is over 5 minutes from time of 911 call.
In the case of Pearl Mississippi, the Vice Principle stopped the school shooter simply by aiming his gun at the shooter (which he he had run & retrieved from his own car) & was able to hold the shooter until Police arrived minutes later. In the case of Appalachian Law School two students who ran to get their guns from their cars were able to stop the shooter just by aiming their guns at him & telling him to drop his gun, after which students were able to tackle him to the ground & hold him for Police who arrived minutes later.
I've named just 2 examples that ended well with armed citizens who were able to intervene with their own guns before Police could arrive. CCW carry is legal in 48 States, please name one event where your made up scenario has taken place (shooter was able to kill more people because Police were confused due to too many armed law abiding citizens at the scene).
I cannot name an event
I cannot name an event because it hasn't happened yet. I do have a problem with your two examples. In the cases that we have had, the shooter continue shooting even after LEO arrived. Do you honestly believe those incidents would not have occured because students had a weapon? VT and the like had an agenda and I seriously do not think they would have stopped just because a student or teacher pointed a gun at them and told them to stop
It hasn't happened yet
I could rest my case with your statement "It hasn't happened yet" in combination with the fact that multiple independent studies have shown that there are over 2 Million cases of self defense uses of a gun by average citizens every year in the US alone, 98% of the time without even needing to fire a shot, that in combination with the fact that roughly 2-3% of the citizens in most of the shall issue CCW states already have CCW permits & carry every but gun free zones. If it hasn't happened yet, odds are good that it won't happen often if it ever does, and adding one more location where CCW permit holders can carry isn't likely to change that.
As for your question on why someone bent on shooting lots of disarmed defenseless victims with plans to shoot him or herself before the Police can confront them would be willing to put down their gun in the face of someone else aiming their gun at them, I'm not sure why they do. Perhaps it is before they're ready to die, perhaps they want to prepare themselves mentally to kill themselves. Perhaps it is because the thought of being shot by someone else before they are ready throws them off their game long enough to cause confusion.
I do know that in both of those cases I mentioned the shooters had planned to off themselves & in both cases they put down their gun when confronted by an armed citizen commanding them to do so. Even if not, better for there to be a shootout between an armed citizen & the shooter than for the shooter to be able to continue his or her killing spree knocking off person after person with nobody around to attempt to stop it.
My comment has all the basis
Dustin....you said my comment about LEO taking longer to get into a building has no basis, so exactly where did you get your information from. Every time this issue comes up its the LEO that state it's not a good idea, it was LEO that said they would have trouble determining who was the bad guy and who was the good guy, and it was LEO that stated it would take longer for them to take action.
I think I would listen to LEO, since they are the ones that would enter that building, over some guy who wants to promote something.
And here's something else to think about. I am on campus and there is an attact. I run towards that attck and see the attacker just inside the building. I pull out my weapon as I get ready to engage him. Just then, an LEO comes up and tells me to drop my weapon. I turn to see the officer and now I am dead. I just turned and pointed my weapon at an officer. When you are in fight or flight, you cannot tell how you are going to act. And there is no procedure for any LEO that says the offender must fire at you first. If he turns towards you and his weapon is pointed in your general direction, that officer has every right to shoot you
If a citizen gets shot
I forgot to address your citizen aims gun at officer scenario. It is true that it is possible that a citizen could accidentally do something stupid in the presence of an Officer that could get him or herself shot. That type of situation is very rare, although I'm sure it probably has happened.
It would be something anyone who makes the decision to carry would have to weigh in their decision to carry or not to carry. Personally I would rather take that very low risk over having no option other than to hide under a desk & wait to be shot.
What we are discussing is the restoration of the freedom to choose to be armed to have the ability to defend oneself from attack by mugger, rapist, or mass shooter. Nobody would be forced to carry who does not wish to for any reason, whether that be because they don't want to take the time to do the training, or because they are worried they could accidentally point their gun at an officer, or any other reason one would decide not to carry that is open to the imagination.
Remember too that concealed carry is already legal off campus, so the same type of scenario is already open to happen, this is not something new.
WilmMan, I admit it would be a zoo in an actual shooting...
...likely totally impractical, but unless the universities get serious about these shootings, there are going to be more of them. These nuts are specifically targeting places they are familiar with, and that they know are devoid of armed opposition. Sooner or later one of them is going to bring in some heavy firepower and go for the record.
I view the armed individual as the last resort, close-in defensive system. Armed security guards in every building, metal detectors, armed faculty....there are lots of other, more practical steps that could be taken. But they don't come cheap.
If the universities continue to do nothing, I'm all for individuals protecting their own lives.
Young people? With guns?
In most places the minimum age to be a sworn law-enforcement officer is......twenty-one.
In order to purchase a pistol or revolver and obtain a concealed carry license you must be.....twenty-one.
Odd, that our nation and state will trust seventeen year-olds to carry fully automatic weapons, but we start getting uneasy when we talk about twenty-one year-old college students being able to carry a simply sidearm to protect themselves.
Here's a counter-proposal to UNCW and every other university: Have two armed security guards in every building on campus, and there won't be any need for people to arm themselves. Until you're ready to pick up that tab, then don't deny people the God-given right of self-defense.
People need to realize that these psycho-nutjobs are specifically targeting schools because they know that no one there is armed. (Of course the gunman in Pearl, MS found out that assumption can be wrong, when he found himself staring down the barrel of the assistant principal's .45 automatic. He surrendered, crying like a baby after his killing rampage was interrupted - proof that firearms in the right hands, even civilian hands, do serve a purpose.)
Due to my career choices, I have carried a sidearm my entire life, but never once drew it from my holster unless I was totally justified under law.
I'm just no so arrogant that I think I'm the only one who can be responsible with a firearm.
A lot of the kids defending
A lot of the kids defending this country are 18....what;s your point, self protection is a right that should be afforded college students assuming all the CCW permits etc...
When seconds count
Most cops will be the first to tell you that: 'when seconds count, the police are only minutes away'
a compromise
Why not offer scholarships to students age 21 and older who attend police academy during summer vacations and agree to serve as reserve armed plainclothes campus police officers? If some of them later become police officers professionally, so much the better? Likewise, professors who agree to do this could have their service counted towards promotion as equivalent to one journal article per year.
I like your idea.
I like your idea.
GREAT IDEA!!!
GREAT IDEA!!!
Same old tired arguments
Yet another hidebound inside-the-boxer administrator trots out the fallacious Brady-boilerplate "talking points."
You are "concerned about the training and proficienty" or gun owners, yet the state has certified both. Do you give special "university driving tests" to people before they can drive on campus? How dare you.
The "complexity of introducing multiple weapons to a police emergency" doesn't seem to be a big factor OUTSIDE universities. If police can handle it in the "real world," they can handle it on your campus -- and they probably won't have to, since it will no longer be an attractive nuisance to mass murderers
"Many gun owners have been killed or injured with their own weapons while attempting an intervention." A popular, but vaporous claim. Prove it.
Bottom line: Free adult citizens do not lose their rights at the gates of a campus. Admnistrators' politically-correct pet phobias should never be allowed to trump a person's right to defend his own life.
Yeah, this group just wants
Yeah, this group just wants people who have licenses to carry guns to be allowed to carry guns. Isn't that sort-of why the licenses exist?
Great idea!
Students licensed to carry everywhere else in the state should also be allowed to carry on campus!
It makes sense.
Let them defend themselves from deranged gunmen.
Can anyone tell me how many school shootings gun free zones have stopped? NONE!
And to the person who claimed that 18 year olds shouldn't be able to do this: THEY CAN'T! YOU HAVE TO BE 21 TO GET A LICENSE TO CARRY!
Concealed Carry
The college says:
"The best protection for any potential emergency is to be informed and aware".
Tell that to the VA Tech victims.
They were informed when the gunman burst thru the door.
They were aware when he started shooting, ran out of ammo, and then calmly reloaded twice and started again. Meanwhile police stood outside, not sure of the threat. They were just as confused as the students, with good reason.
Concealed carry facts:
1. It's more expensive than a six pack of beer.
2. You have to complete classroom instruction.
3. You have to actually demonstrate proficiency using your sidearm in the presence of your instructor. One mistake on the firing range and you can instantly fail. (Finger on trigger before being instructed to fire)
4. You have to undergo a background check.
5. You have to give your complete fingerprints.
6. Once you complete these things, you learn you can never use, or display your firearm, without a grand jury investigation looming in your future, or being charged for "going armed to the terror of the public" if someone sees your firearm.
I stand next to you every day at the supermarket. I'm at the gas pump across from you. I may be wearing jeans and a T shirt. I may be in a suit. We smile and talk, weather, fishing etc. You'll never suspect I'm carrying a weapon. God willing, I'll never have to use it.
But if a robbery takes place at the quickie mart, with police 8 minutes away, a crazed crack head thug waving his gun in your child's face, you'll be glad I'm there. You will go home that night to your family safely if I get one second without his eyes on me, and God willing I have a clear shot without endangering anyone, and all the legal prerequisites have been met.
Of course you could always be "informed and aware" shortly before he starts blasting away at anyone and everyone nearby. People need to be realistic. "Where would you put one" (sidearm)DUH. Before discounting this solution, find out the facts yourself. Professor Flatbottom is going to run just like everyone else, if there's anywhere to run.
People that have a concealed carry permits hardly ever ever commit crimes. They take responsibility for the choice to carry. They carry for protection, not only theirs, but yours also.
But don't worry, the college is getting pretty good at paying out money in settlements.
Nothing is perfect. But that big sticker that says no guns, is a magnet for nut jobs. The signs mean "NO RESISTANCE TO BE FOUND HERE".
Campus security is not a deterrent to this crazy phenomenon.
If you look at all the school shootings, one thing is evident. No one had a concealed weapon. If one concealed carry permit holder would have been present, at least the students would have had a chance, some might be alive today.
The argument put forth by the college is just about what I would expect. Half truths, outright lies, and the promise that they know what's best for you, knowing there's nothing they can do against crazy people.
I practice with my sidearm once a week.
You should too.
Or just be informed and aware.
I'll still be standing beside you, if your lucky.
See... THIS was the real problem...
Here's the real reason the shooter accomplished so much:
"They were aware when he started shooting, ran out of ammo, and then calmly reloaded twice and started again."
At the LEAST, while he was reloading, anyone could have tackled his ass and stopped him. And I'm damned sure someone could have cold-cocked him from behind at some point if only they had the guts to do so. People are too busy looking out for number one to really care what happens, so long as it doesn't happen to themselves. THAT, my friends, is the root of the problem, as harsh as it may be.
You said "At the LEAST,
You said "At the LEAST, while he was reloading, anyone could have tackled his ass and stopped him."
Actually there were people who did try to stop him. There was a brave teacher that held the door shut & told his students to go out the windows. I believe I even heard that there were people who tried to fight back by throwing objects or chairs.
The fact is that it only takes 2-3 seconds to reload if you practice just a little bit, and I understand that he was preparing for months. He also may have been doing what are called "tactical reloads" - reloading while there is still one round in the chamber (so he could still fire one more round before his new magazine was inserted). He was probably far enough away that it would have been difficult to reach him quickly enough either way.
I'm not saying it wasn't worth trying, of course you're better off using whatever means are at your disposal to fight back than to hide under a desk. I'm just saying you'll have better odds if you bring a gun to a gun fight rather than a broom from the Janitor closet or a chair from the classroom.
See... THIS was the real problem
"People are too busy looking out for number one to really care what happens, so long as it doesn't happen to themselves."
Your absolutely right. Campus officials have instilled a false sense of security by programs that do nothing to foil a tragedy.
What good is an email notification when you've been shot?
Run and Hide is the answer.
The University should be teaching firearm safety.
Maybe a self-defense course or two.
I don't know if they have campus wide emergency drills for an intruder.
I'm sure they have a fire drill.
Run and Hide.
If this is the best Campus officials can come up with, it's time for a new administration.
I'm certainly not impressed by the current one.
This will cause way more
This will cause way more problems than it will solve. No way should students carry guns on Campus. College campuses are still safer than average everyday cities
way more problems?
Scally Wagg said: "This will cause way more problems than it will solve."
I hear people say that quite a bit, yet nobody has any evidence that it is true. Quite the opposite, we have evidence that it is false. People claimed that there would be "way more problems" when concealed carry laws became "shall issue" in States like Florida, yet instead of "way more problems" they had less - less crime, less murder, less gun death.
Schools in Utah allow 21 & up to carry in all schools, Universities & grade schools. Please list one example of a resulting problem. Can't find it because it simply doesn't exist.
Get educated people, stop spouting off the same old talking points without presenting any evidence other than you said so.
Permittees
Persons who have obtained their permit-to-carry a firearm tend to be among the most stable and reliable people in the general population. Statistically, they are several times LESS likely to commit a crime than POLICE OFFICERS themselves.
If you are fortunate enough to be near a person with a permit-to-carry (whether you know it or not) you are several times safer than if he were not there.
I was fortunate enough to visit Israel several years ago. Every tenth civilian in Israel is carrying a firearm, and that's not counting the scores of off-duty military with their full-auto assault rifles. All those folks with their guns protecting my safety made me feel as safe as I would be at home in bed.
I think permittees should be encouraged to carry their firearms - on campus and everywhere else.
John
"Statistically, they are
"Statistically, they are several times LESS likely to commit a crime than POLICE OFFICERS themselves."
Completely untrue. Its real easy to just blurt out ridiculous statements as facts, but it does nothing to build your case, and actually detracts from your argument.
Attending a concealed class and understanding weapons doesn't give you the maturity and overall responsibility to protect the public. I'm completely against it. Its an accident waiting to happen.
You're right, it isn't true
You're right, it isn't true that police officers commit more crimes than licensees. BUT licensees are less likely to commit crimes than the general public.
From a study done in Texas:
"# Licensees were 5.7 times less likely to be arrested for violent offenses than the general public - 127 per 100,000 population versus 730 per 100,000.
# Licensees were 14 times less likely to be arrested for nonviolent offenses than the general public - 386 per 100,000 population versus 5,212 per 100,000.
# Further, the general public is 1.4 times more likely to be arrested for murder than licensees [see Figure I], and no licensee had been arrested for negligent manslaughter."
http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba324/ba324.html
if you think 1 college
if you think 1 college student or 1000 college students with a gun on campus is gonna change those planned attacks your dreaming ,i would feel so paranoid being around in a well known knuckle head environment where one of the students in his class left the safety off the concealed weapon and bam his book bag falls off his desk and the school cheerleader captain whom had just sighned a contract with tropicana tan company just got shot in the head by bill bobs concealed weapon because billy bob stayed up all night studying for a final and forgot to check and maintain the safety on his gun ,furthermore what if a planned attack is carred out on your campus and the attackers wear bullet proff vests and have plenty of ammo for there machine guns and your gonna get close enough with a lil hand gun to stop a shot gun or a machine gun maybe maybe not also when the attackers run out of ammo they can look through dead student bodys for concealed weapons and have more fire power .you or god are not gonna stop a well planned attack by no means just bite the bullet as they say and accept it , they do evevryday in iraq and iran and afghanastn poor soldiers ,its the world students stop those big frat drinking partys and read politics and vote get these people out of office whom arent doing a dang thing for your community but blowing air out a talk hole to you about change, file political bills with a group and go to your state legislature ,make a difference ,your getting bigger now your not mom and dads lil kid anymore its time to accept responsibilty , maybe you can stop one person with a hand gun carrying out an attack put what is the price u pay, students carrying guns i dont think so period. leave it to the police