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Do you agree with the recommendation to cut five programs from UNCW's athletics department?

Do the Right thing

It would be nice to see the University do the right thing. It is about time that Student Athletes become a priority again instead of money. I am sick of hearing how Universities drool all over themselves to get the next hot shot high school basketball player to come to their school to play his one and only season of college basketball. We need to stop subsidizing these kids chance at the NBA. We need to stop allowing kids to start school who have absolutely no intention of graduation.

The majority of kids in the programs that are proposed to be cut will graduate. Many will graduate with honors, many will go on to post graduate work, and many will have a positive impact on this country.

I wonder if UNCW's basketball alumni would have responded with as much passion as the swimming alumni have. I doubt it.

The right thing to do is to get rid of the "revenue" sport that is not providing any revenue. The right thing to do would be to get rid of the basketball team that was academically ineligible for post season play this past year and keep the "student athletes" at UNCW.

This is an amazing program

This is an amazing program that not only builds great athlete's, but they WIN! It's plane and simple; how could cutting a program, let alone a winning program satisfy the schools needs? There are other ways and those ways must be addressed first before even thinking of doing this.

Nathan

This is a duplicate post so I apologize:
That says it all:
http://www.uncw.edu/iarc/documents/UNCWIARC_Recommendations.pdf

Page 17 Appendix A
9 Mens sports teams
10 ladies
182 male team members with a budget of $3,730,142
218 female members with a budget of $3,271,393

By my figuring that is
400 students costing $7,001,535
or approximately $17,503 - per student athlete

The PROPOSED cuts leave:
6 Mens teams with 120 athletes costing $3,458,539
8 womens teams with 163 athletes costing $2,652,154
totals:
283 students costing $6,110,693
or, approximately $21,592 - per student athlete

If this committee were employed in the private sector?
They would be FIRED
They cut $890,842 or 12%
But increased per student costs.
Sports is big business - and bad business for UNCW.
Everyone - Administrators, Directors, Coaches, Boosters and Alumni should be embarrassed, no ASHAMED, that the deification of the student athlete has resulted in such fiscal outrageous-ness.
If I were a freshman non-athlete at UNCW I would find an attorney and ask for my student fees back.

Vog

back to class

"This is an amazing program that not only builds great athlete's, but they WIN! It's plane and simple;"

Maybe it is plain and simple. I don't think aviation has anything to do with this story.

Revenue

Everyone is mentioning revenue and I know that is the reason for the recommendations, but what does not seem to be taken in to account is the lost tuition dollars that will occur because of this. While swimming in and of itself does not not create revenue, it does bring approx 80 students to the scholl while only providing 8 scholarships. That means the equivalent of 72 of them are paying tuition. This is probably similar for the track team as well. My son, who is a national level diver and honor student was coming to UNCW on a partial scholarship. We would still be paying tuition to the school along with meal plan money, spending money in the community, housing etc. If this goes through, that money will go to another school and community. And at this late date in the admitting process, will not likely be replaced. The only reason UNCW was on his radar was because of the Swimming and Diving program and then he discovered is was a great school, but since UNCW has determined his dreams are not worth anything (and might I add, did it at a time when it will make it extremely hard to find another school as most schools have filled their rosters) they will lose our money.

Athletics is an Educational Experience

If you dont think that sports can be used to educate, you are sorely mistaken. As a career coach, the best part about what I do is help athletes be successful beyond their sport. Any sport (althought I am partial to swimming) is an avenue to teach kids time management, persistance, diligence, hard work, how to overcome obstacles, etc. These are often the most important lessons that can't be taught in the classroom. UNCW (and other schools) need to learn a lesson or two from John Wooden's school of thought when it comes to varsity athletics - the first job of a coach is to help these athletes become respectable young men & women - so to assume that these sports teams can be cut with little effect on the individual, school and community as a whole is simply small minded.

No need

Having attended UNCW as a student athlete for the past 4 years on one of the teams proposed to be cut, its difficult for me to find backing behind cutting these programs. From when I was a freshman on this campus to now, the physical campus has transformed tremendously. The rec center has quadrupled in size, they have added two new academic buildings with a plan for two more, an entire new housing section, and seem to be doing construction on every corner of campus whether it be putting in sidewalks, repaving roads that don't seem to need repaving, or making chancellors walk look aesthetically pleasing. Although its understood that these things benefit all students, its hard to justify the cutting of sports that have been the face of this University since the beginning in order to have these material things. Not to mention the 10% increase in tuition EVERY year since I have attended this university. It seems that the administration of this university has put image so far above function that they have forgotten what really matters... Bottom line, priorities MUST be reevaluated. There is no need to be cutting teams for lack of budget when so much money is being spent unnecessarily in other areas.

UNCW proposed cuts

There are many lessons to be learned in this situation, educational all of them. Budget cuts, tough choices, good stewardship, taking the charges you are given to heart, putting others best interests ahead of your own, this list goes on. We send our college students to UNCW to be educated first and foremost, yes, but an education is a launching pad for a life well lived in every aspect. These lessons are learned in many ways, the experiences shared in the classroom and on the fields and in the pools and at the side of great coaches and classroom teachers are integral to this education. This great University should not succumb to the poor decision making that is rampant in education in this state. Put your students and your programs first, remain true to your mission to serve as a public institution, look for budget cuts elsewhere. Excess exists everywhere, you have experts to look for it and put budget practices into place that will allow for the continuation of excellence in your classrooms and in athletics.

Save UNCW swimming

As a UNCW alum, and lifelong swimmer I cannot imagine the stupidity going through decision makers minds at the university. It is shameful. These are student athletes we are talking about.

This team deserves more than

This team deserves more than this. They deserve to be able to continue a tradition. UNCW will find little to pride itself upon if they cut the swimming and diving team. Coach Allen deserves more than this.

Cut the Salaries

I agree with cutting on salaries. Buzz Peterson makes entirely way too much to be producing losing seasons. All that money could be given divided amongst the other sports. Why should he make more than the chancelor of our University? What does he do for the students?

As an alumni of one of the

As an alumni of one of the sports being cut I can't fathom that administration has sought out every last alternative. It is a lot easier to strike a few line items off of the income statement. However, the easiest solution is not always the correct solution. Cutting arguably the most successful program in the conference's history would be a travesty.

So lets see the basketball

So lets see the basketball team had a 1.1 million dollar deficit with a 10-20 conference record..Lets go cut all the successful teams that win conference year after year!! Great recommendations

There are many ways to save

There are many ways to save money without cutting an entire program. UNCW swimming and diving has shown excellence in the class room and in the pool. Cutting a program that shows the heart and spirit of UNCW reflects poorly on our school

Agree

I completely agree with the cuts. Today it is all about money and yes its nice to have a variety of all sports available to incoming students but, if the school is losing money or needs money, these must be the first to go. Several universities have cut programs like swimming and diving and they are doing it to better the university and athletic program not to punish them. So please quit complaining. If its going to be cut then obviously it is being cut to benefit something else. In the end, it will be the chancellors decision no matter how many people complain and do petitions. If they need to cut sports they will end of story. Not to mention you can always transfer to a school that has your sport. If you are doing it for the RIGHT reasons, it wont matter where you go because you will be doing what you love whether it be at UNCW or at any other university.

If it really is all about

If it really is all about money, why not cut ALL of the teams? Correct me if I'm wrong, but NONE of the teams bring in more money than they spend. The entire $11M+ athletic budget could go a long way in the academics departments, which is apparently all that is important at a University. If you aren't going to keep the teams that are among the most successful, both athletically and academically, why keep any of them??

Impressed

WOW!!!! In this era of, "not wanting to hurt anyone's feelings" this was a bold recommendation by the committee. I'm sure that, if the recommendations are adopted, there will be some disappointed kids; some who will protest and some who will make demands. But there will be the, silent majority, who will quietly accept the changes and do what is within their best interest as student athletes. The latter will be the ones who will go far in life having learned something not taught in any classroom....... Sometimes life just sucks and you have to adapt and overcome, accordingly.

Wilmington Observer

One of the things that I

One of the things that I learned as a swimmer at UNCW was to never quit. The leaders of the University are teaching these young students that when things get tough just quit.

It is shameful that they are doing this after school has already ended for the year. There is almost no way that these kids can transfer this late to another school that has a program. On top of that it will disrupt progress towards their degree as well as having a negative financial impact on that family.

Impressed....by what exactly?? Complacence?

I am not sure how this is a PC argument about not hurting anyone's feelings. How exactly is this a "bold recommendation"? It is the recommendation that would appear to the easiest to implement. The course, I believe, is the path of least resistance. It is a recommendation that is coming due to incompetence within the athletic departments handling of revenue in years past. You think that this "silent majority" (and I would love to hear from just one member of this "silent majority" you seem to have knowledge about) of student athletes should just sit back and accept this without fighting for what they believe in? How exactly is that a positive life lesson? Of course sometimes life sucks and circumstances force you to adapt and overcome, but this is not one of those circumstances. In the end, if this recommendation comes to pass then these student athletes will, I am most certain, adapt and overcome, but until then they should fight for their programs with everything they have in them. To just blindly sit back and accept it goes against everything being an athlete (and a productive member of society) is about. I don't know about you, but I teach my children to fight for what they believe in and then accept the results/outcome knowing they did everything they could.

Excellence should be

Excellence should be rewarded. The mens and womens swimming team at UNCW are the most highly successful teams, based on GPA, conference championships, scholar athlete awards and school ambassadors. I thought striving to achieve high levels of excellence were goals that this University was trying to impart on the students.

Excellence MUST be rewarded

I am writing to express my sincere concern with the current proposal to discontinue the Men’s and Woman’s Swimming and Diving program at the University of North Carolina Wilmington. I have read through the reporting and I think the University is missing the big picture here. The swimmers have very admirable grades, have a better success record than all of the other more funded programs, and they accomplish this on a modest fraction of the university’s overall athletic budget. The Chancellor, Board, and Athletic Director really need to look at this from a top down perspective and see where they are getting best value on their investment. Revenue alone cannot be the sole driver to this decision,,, that revenue has to be reconciled with the operating costs of the revenue source. More importantly, what kind of message is the university sending when they cut a program that boasts a 12 consecutive year conference championship winning record? Please reconsider this decision and reward success.

Ralph

Striving to attain excellence IS indeed the goal of the University in ACADEMICS. Sports is a secondary consideration.
Academic excellence would imply that students have enough insight to see how sports (and the lack of support for them) are hurting UNCW economically.
That insight is lacking at the upper levels of Management there, never mind the students.
The students are starting petition drives to keep the sports that particular group likes - that was to be expected.
As a person who takes courses now and again I love the University.
But I hate the meddling that has taken place in the sports programs by those with limited knowledge of them - and the results of that meddling.

No matter which way you slice it or dice it - if support has waned from Boosters and alumni, AND attendance indicates that certain sports are not generating any revenue then it's time to make some tough business decisions! Now THAT is an education that all kids need to get, or witness. It's a life lesson that would be good to learn.

Vog

Vog

ALL SPORTS at UNCW operate at a loss. Sports are not at Universities for their revenue for the most part. They provide an enrichment to the university experience. Student Athletes play a large juggling game trying to balance school and their sport. The programs that are on the chopping block often have the highest GPA's. What that shows is that these are the sports being used best for academic enhancement. Today there are accredited universities that teach online and you can save money going to them instead of enrolling in a University like UNCW. There is an element to growth and learning outside the classroom. Learning to juggle academics and athletics is a learning experience and a very good one at this.

Vog, Universities nationwide

Vog, Universities nationwide have affirmed time and time again that athletics is central theme in academic life. Universities use athletics as a learning vehicle, an academic experience, and a way to connect to the community and the alumni. Athletes sign a code of conduct because they are ambassadors/representatives of the University to the community and alumni---so you cannot separate them from the goals of the teaching experience. Your vision and position are at odds with reality and Universities nationwide clearly disagree. Also, last time I checked strong-student athletes are continuously lauded by this and other administrations. Swimmers having high GPAs, and both UNCW swimming and diving teams are historic repeat CSCAA Scholar All American Teams--they are winners and even get compete in conference championships. Read the committee's report more critically. The budget shortfall is primary due to failure to fund raise--because of is in disarray with inconsistent policies, lack of attention to constitutes desires and details, poor leadership, compromised relationships, poor outreach to the community and a critical need to rebuild fundraising relationships that are sensitive to constitute expectations. The budget shortfall is also mostly covered by a 1.2 million dollar increase in student fees which make up about $7.3/11.5 budget. The programs are being dissoved to repurpose $800,000 (mostly unspecified). Thus, te money is being repurposed mostly to basketball to save two jobs (the AD and basketball coach), whose jobs are clearly on the line if the program doesn't reverse its downward spiral. They think it will reverse their recruiting woes, reverse losing records and save their jobs. But wait, Florida Gulf Coast basketball has achieved prominent success even though total coaching salaries are less than ~$175,000/yr, a program supported by a limited numbers of scholarships, and an Alico Arena that seats only 4,500 fans. Wake up, coaching excellence is what success is all about. Don't kill success and throw good money after bad. Pay attention.

Vog

So if academic excellence is the top priority, why are we going to give more money to the basketball team that didn't even play in the CAA tournament this year due to poor academics?

The basketball program doesn't even generate more revenue than it spends, just like every other sport. Just because it's a "revenue sport" doesn't mean it's actually making more money than it costs. Instead of learning a lesson in business and economics, maybe we should learn a more important lesson in morals and priorities.

And as a "person who takes

And as a "person who takes courses now and again", I suppose you have more knowledge of the UNCW athletic department and the teams involved in this fight than "those with limited knowledge of them"?

As a UNCW alumni with 2 undergraduate degrees, a Master's degree from UNCW, 4 years on the UNCW Swim team, and over 8 years direct involvement with this University, I would completely disagree with your argument, tone, and ridiculously uninformed statements.

UNCW has raised $66M+ in the past 7 years for academic and athletic scholarship programs, grants, research, and professor endowments. Of this, 91% were restricted to support specific scholarships, professorships, academic, athletic or other programs. This is of course in addition to the standard budget.

http://uncw.edu/advancement/campaign/

What we are seeing is a result of a gross mismanagement of resources on the part of the UNCW Athletic Department. These programs that may be slashed have and never will be money makers for the University, however they programs which draw in talent, enthusiasm, bolster school pride, and attract highly motivated student-athletes (and their $) to this University. The swim team in particular, with 12 consecutive conference titles, year after year above average GPA, and community involvement bring something to this University that it can not afford to lose.

To simply slash these programs may alleviate a bit of budget stress in the short term, but the long effects of gutting an athletic department will be a clear warning to many who are looking to attend, that this school is incapable of managing itself in a responsible manner or maintaining a budget. It is also not a long term solution to anything, when the 10-20 record Men's Basketball team with a budget of $1.6M is running at a deficit of $1.1M...

I propose that we give our business school leaders and students all the information that they may need to go over what exactly has happened to the money earmarked for the athletic program in the past 5 years, determine when these budget concerns should have been addressed, when the teams/coaches should have been notified that there may be an issue, and try to come up with a solution that allows for the continuation of all programs.

Many people may or may not know, that the business school students already manage a good portion of the endowment fund, and it would be a fantastic showing of good faith in our own students and faculty to give them the opportunity to work together with the Athletic Department, coaching staff, Alumni Society, and campus officials to come up with a viable solution to this problem in an open forum. Rather than allowing the same people who mismanaged everything in the first place make a final decision to destroy the future of and legacy of these programs behind closed doors.

Adam Brenneman
UNCW '06, '10
UNCW Swimming 2002-06

Academic money and athletic

Academic money and athletic money are kept separate, which is how it should be. It is a state university so the money the state gives UNCW for academic is only for academics. Therefore the university is able to build new department building still while the athletic department is suffering. Athletics bring out-of-state students in and I am sure you are aware that out-of-state tuition is much higher then in-state. UNCW barely gives any athletic scholarship so most of out-of-state athletes are paying the full tuition.
And as for the education that ever kid needs to get athletics give more kids this opportunity by using the very few scholarships UNCW can give. Also if you have ever met an athlete in the class room they treat it like the sport they love and strive to be the best they can.

I could not disagree

I could not disagree more.The reason why UNCW has done so well raising $65 million has greatly to do with the support of the alumni and community. Athletics have a great deal in common with education. Being a student athlete is doubled the commitment, double determination, and double the willpower. Schools all over the country endorsed nonrevenue sports and find success within their programs by carefully adhering to their budget. It's seems that UNCW has overextended themselves in other areas and this is a quick fix. Looks like some more homework needs to be done.

UNCW Alumni

Non-revenue sports have

Non-revenue sports have always been non-revenue. That's not the issue.
Regardless, the facts presented in the committee's report would suggest that these decisions were not made by business-minded people. Swimming, for instance, is among the cheapest sports on the list by both overall cost and cost per student. The cost for the combined programs in under 500k for 57 athletes. The golf team, by comparison, has 18 athletes and a higher budget. Around 9k per athlete vs. 28k per athlete? Doesn't make a lot of business sense to me. So...why swimming? Why track? Why softball? There might be good reasons, but those reasons are not outlined in the report. I'd like to know more.

reply to VOG

Have you participated on an athletic team which competed against rival conference schools to determine a champion? Have you ever dedicated countless hours to an activity which required the sacrifice of social and family time, and what most people would call a normal college experience? Have you ever grown so close to group of people due to the shared common goal of success that you can confidently call them a family? Have you ever pushed yourself to the point that you did not think you could go any further, but you did because a coach had faith in you? Have you ever wanted to quit something so badly, but knew you never could because you have team mates who need you and would never abandon you? If you have, then you clearly understand the lessons and values a Division 1 sports team can teach a student athlete that are impossible to learn in the classroom. If you have not, then you will never truly understand what a team can teach an individual.