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Should college students be allowed to carry weapons on campus?

READ MORE: UNCW students push for guns on campus
WILMINGTON -- A number of college campus shootings over the past year have many UNCW students concerned. Some of those students want people with gun permits to be able to carry their guns on campus. Interested students want to join more than 25,000 people who are part of the national organization Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. Fatal shootings at Virginia Tech and Northern Illinois University are examples of why UNCW student Tyler Millage and others want concealed weapons allowed on campus. Millage said, "In the hands of responsible citizens, there's no danger from handguns." Millage is spearheading an effort for the organization Students for Concealed Carry on Campus to be recognized as an official campus group. The group's mission is to allow people at least 21 years-old who have concealed carry permits to have their guns on them when on UNCW's campus, which is currently illegal. "Part of the beauty of concealed carry is that you don't have to carry to be protected by it. Other people can be carrying and they can protect you in an emergency situation," Millage said. Those in favor said campus would be safer. Those opposed, like David Dangelico and Aaron Ward, said they'd feel anything but safe. Dangelico said, "I'd feel more concerned about the person next to me, you know, if he's carrying a handgun in his bag and if I say something wrong to him and he's not exactly having the best day, if something could go wrong." Ward said, "I don't really think allowing more guns in the hands of students is going to necessarily protect us more. We already have an able-bodied police force on campus to deal with this threat." Millage said in the campus shootings that have happened, like at Virginia Tech, school police haven't responded quickly enough. He said, "If just one person in Norris Hall had had a handgun, they could have stopped it before 30 people had been killed in that one building alone." According to Millage, about 30 students have expressed an interest and in the fall the group will present its case to a review committee made up of five faculty members and five students.
UNCW released the following statement: As a university community, we respect the right of our students to express their positions on issues, including campus safety and security, which is an issue of vital importance to all of us. While allowing students to carry guns might appear to some individuals to be an option in deterring violence on campuses, it brings with it additional concerns for safety. One concern is the level of training and proficiency of the person carrying the weapon, including his or her ability to use it effectively and retain the weapon in a crisis situation. Many gun owners have been killed or injured with their own weapons while attempting an intervention. A second concern is the tactical complexity of introducing multiple weapons to a police emergency, which significantly elevates the probability that a well meaning citizen may be mistaken as an aggressor. Having multiple people carrying and using weapons during a situation such as an active shooter attack causes confusion about who is actually the perpetrator, which may result in additional injuries. We believe that there are other approaches and solutions to increasing campus safety and security that are more effective than allowing the proliferation of weapons on campus. The best protection for any potential emergency is to be informed and aware. It is important to have a plan in place in advance to deal with crisis situations. A plan involving options on what a person can do to escape, where to hide (if escape is not an option), who to notify and where to rally with co-workers or classmates when the “all clear” is given are all points that need to be considered. UNCW Police offers “community response to violent situations” workshops to assist students, faculty and staff with how to plan and deal with a violent situation on campus, which cover areas of law enforcement response and familiarization with campus-wide emergency notification systems. Students are also encouraged to report any suspicious individuals or activity to UNCW Police and to be vigilant about security measures, such as not allowing unauthorized persons to enter locked residence halls.
POLL QUESTION:

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Who says those with

Who says those with concealed carry permits aren't a threat. Look at this story from FOX News http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,353438,00.html

No!

No, there should be no weapons on a school campus!!!!!!!!!!!! Concerned Citizen

Here's an idea

I have a great idea (not really). I called WPD and they advised me that it is not illegal to carry a weapon visibly on your body as long as it is in a holster. If you pull it out of the holster is is considered brandishing a weapon. So, why not allow students to just carry a sidearm on their hip. This way a gunman will know students are armed and it will deter them from attacking the campus. If it's not illegal to walk downtown toting a handgun on your hip, why not allow students to do the same in the classroom? It would serve the same purpose, if not more so, than having students carry concealed

Not a good idea

Yep, that works until somebody feels threatened and you are arrested and charged with going armed to the terror of the public. 6.Going Armed To The Terror Of The People By common law in North Carolina, it is unlawful for a person to arm himself with any unusual and dangerous weapon, for the purpose of terrifying others, and go about on public highways in a manner to cause terror to others. The N.C. Supreme Court has said that any gun is an unusual and dangerous weapon for purposes of this offense. Therefore persons are cautioned as to the areas they frequent with firearms.

My comment was actually a

My comment was actually a joke...BUT, according to what you wrote it states that you must arm himself with unusual and dangerous weapons, FOR THE PURPOSE OF TERRIFYING OTHERS, and go on public highways in a MANNER TO CAUSE TERROR TO OTHERS. Just because I have a weapon on my hip doesn't mean I am doing it for the purpose of terrifying others or in a manner to cause terror Personally, I think the whole issue of having weapons on campus is a bad idea

doesn't matter

Even if it is just a pistol in a holster and some bedwetting liberal feels the least bit threatened or fearful, you have met the requirments for being armed to the terror of the public.

NC Firearms Laws

Go to page 26, item 6.

So, if I am driving down the

So, if I am driving down the road and stop at a red light, a person looks into my car and sees a handgun sitting on the passenger seat and gets scared I am now in trouble? I understand what you are saying, but things can go either way. There is no law that says you cannot walk downtown with a gun in a holster on your hip. If the police want to get you off the street with that weapon, they will find a way.

As a UNCW student who lives

As a UNCW student who lives on campus, I don't feel completely safe here now bc of what has happened at other colleges. However, I think i would feel even less safe knowing students around me were allowed to have concealed weapons. Yeah, most of them probably would have the gun with them for good intentions; but, all it would take is for that one student who had a permit to conceal a gun to decide to shoot up the school and be allowed to bring his or her gun on campus and do so. UNCW police are everywhere and they don't put up with any junk; leave it up to them. But one thing that does need to happen...teachers should be required to lock the classroom door when class starts! You'd think that would already be taking place here, but it's not.

You said "all it would take

You said "all it would take is for that one student who had a permit to conceal a gun to decide to shoot up the school and be allowed to bring his or her gun on campus and do so" So are you trying to say that the so-called "gun free zone" has actually stopped school shootings? When a mentally unstable person decides to go "shoot up the school" do you really think a "gun free zone" sign is going to make them say "Gee, I guess I can't do it here" In gun free zones, only the criminals & the Police have guns. Everyone else are disarmed law abiding citizens rolling the dice to see if they too will become victims to muggers, murderers, or rapists.

You said "all it would take

You said "all it would take is for that one student who had a permit to conceal a gun to decide to shoot up the school and be allowed to bring his or her gun on campus and do so" So are you trying to say that the so-called "gun free zone" has actually stopped school shootings? When a mentally unstable person decides to go "shoot up the school" do you really think a "gun free zone" sign is going to make them say "Gee, I guess I can't do it here" In gun free zones, only the criminals & the Police have guns. Everyone else are disarmed law abiding citizens rolling the dice to see if they too will become victims to muggers, murderers, or rapists.

Camera Guns

We should have security cameras with guns attached so that if a criminal or crazy student is shooting up the place someone in a control room can zoom in and fire. It would be even better if they were web cams so that anyone with a computer can help to identify and kill suspected shooters in the school. We would absolutely need a certification program for that but thanks to the internet, we could take care of that on line and in less than an hour. Plus, with the availability of Wifi on campus, people could log in on their iPod touch or wireless laptop and we would have real time total coverage too!

Guns on campus

Unbelievable! These stupid students should all be expelled for just being dumb. America is such a messed up place when people think having a gun is ok. Get a life people!

Think about it. A non-law

Think about it. A non-law abiding person will bring a gun to school anyways. Why not allow those who are LAWFUL citizens to carry on campus and be able to defend your sorry ass in case there is a shooting at your school.

They canot think

They cannot think that far ahead. As liberals, they see things in the most pessimistic light and never in the best circumstance. No matter how fast the cops could get there. Pro's with guns beats criminals anytime they don't KNOW they have the edge. And students on campus with training and guns would prevent criminals from knowingly selecting those on campus at random for safe VICTIMS of their crimes. Don't argue this, just what you learned in statistics class. Sooner or later you're going to lose. And criminals hate to lose. So they don't act. It's PREVENTATIVE. After a couple lose the cost become too great too play the game. And if you still hate this thought. You are irrational. And you would be the next dead criminal.

Move to Australia, no gun rights there

Unbelievable! Someone in this country of ours has forgotten what are Rights that are granted to citizens by the Constitution! You should be expelled from the country for being ignorant of simple history lessons. America is such a messed up place where people like you can exist and think it's not ok for law abiding people can have guns. Get a life person! (The fact that you would not even give a hint of your name implies that you are not capable of standing up for fear of being identified by others that might think you are totally the village idiot.)

Do What?

I am replying to the comment that said that America is a messed up place when people think they can have guns. Of course its ok to have guns. Ever heard of the 2nd Amendment? "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." Thats what it says. It doesn't say we can only have certain arms or carry them in certain places, it says our right to keep and bear shall not be infringed. So YES of course it's ok to have guns as long as one does not abuse them!

Guns on campus

without a doubt YES YES YES, it has been shown time and time again that gun free zones make easy victims, any law abiding citizen/student with the CCW should be able to carry a firearm to protect himself and others, how can some people think that by banning guns on campus, criminals are going to obey that law????....let people defend themselves....it's the second amendment baby....

training

Anyone who wishes to carry a gun should train and get training; this is good. YOU VILL REGITER VITH THE REIGHT is a bit over the top for this country. These students wish to act like a free people and be secure in their persons. They are not farm animals to be tagged. Escape and evade is always good. But there are times when shooting back is best. It happens every day. God's Speed to Students for Concealed Carry on Campus. They are doing the work we elders should have done a generation ago.

MORE Guns in Classrooms needed

So why the heck not. As for the keystone university cops not being able to tell good guy from bad guy Im not sure they can do it anyway. Look at how Curtis Dixon* was allowed entrance to the school. Look at how John Peck* was allowed entrance to the school. Look at how BOTH of them were allowed to continue on campus even after reports of stalking and threats. These liberal dooches dont even carry a gun they pay sid causey to do all the heavy work, lame panties boys. Anytime im on campus, or anywhere ill be protected. Im not counting on anyone especially the UNCW keystone cops. * just dawned on me you have no idea who these two killers are because no one mentions them or their victims on campus. But they killed UNCW students Kristin Najoks and Jessica Faulkner. They were admitted for enrollement even though they have criminal records that in one case included kidnapping, rape and forcing a gun down the throat of a victim PRIOR to being admitted for enrollment. Of course his daddy worked for the sheriffs department and the other dirtbag worked for the UNCC chancleor as provost. Dang all this has gotten me thinking i need two guns

just make school's accountable and safer

It is the school place to make it safer, If you notice most of the killing are students so now give the right to have a gun, I have said here before. they shouldn't be able to get in the building. and parents start at home. Know what your kids are doing, I know when they are college age the aren't living at home, but parents have to be parents and we would help each other instead bullying people and just giving kids everything they might turn out better people

Not a good idea

IF....they decide to allow students to carry weapons on campus, those students should first have to register with the campus police. There should also be extra yearly training. In order to get your concealed weapons permit, sure you have to take a class. But what exactly does that class prove? NOTHING. I have my permit and carry almost everywhere. But the class does nothing to prove how well you can shoot. We had to shoot at a target and follow orders, but there was no minimum score we had to reach. You just had to show that you knew how to use the gun. Those that carry should have to "qualify" with the exact weapon they will carry and maintain a minimum score, just like LEO. Personally, I am against it. I think it would cause more confusion during a crisis. It will probably take LEO that much longer to enter a building because they will have no idea who is the bad guy and who is just carrying a weapon. I also think most people will freeze at the last minute. It's easy to say you won't, but you never know how you will react until the situation arises. Plus, it's not easy to shoot at someone that is shooting back. And you missing your target could easily cause more injuries

LEO confused?

WilmMan said: "It will probably take LEO that much longer to enter a building because they will have no idea who is the bad guy and who is just carrying a weapon." This is a popular talking point with absolutely zero basis in fact. Although people conceal carry in more than 40 States there has not been a single example of this made up scenario. The fact is that Police always have to be on the lookout for armed citizens, undercover officers, and off duty officers. They have very specific protocol to go through when they encounter someone with a gun. They will order the person with a gun to drop the weapon. If it is a good citizen he or she will obey. Otherwise it will be the shooter who will either run, shoot him or herself, or start shooting at the Officers. Additionally, FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute. Since the Police will be minutes away at best they'll probably arrive to either find the shooter subdued, or the armed citizen among those lying on the ground.

School shootings last less than a minute???

Dustin wrote: "Additionally, FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute. Since the Police will be minutes away at best they'll probably arrive to either find the shooter subdued, or the armed citizen among those lying on the ground." As a smart college student, as you seem, you know very well that you can make stastics say anything you want. When you talk about gun fights, are the drive by shootings included? How about the drug deal that went bad and someone got shot? What about the domestic situation where the husband kills his wife and maybe himself? If you are going to give stats, I want to know stats and how they relate to the situation at hand. If you are going to talk about school shootings, I want to know exactly how many of the school shootings lasted under a minute? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any

Police envolved gun fights

It was a compilation by the FBI of duration of officer involved gun fights - from the point the officer begins shooting at an armed criminal who is shooting back, until the gun fight is over. To be a gun fight both the officer & a criminal need to be armed with guns & shooting at each other. So no, drive by shootings, drug deals gone bad, murders, etc, would not be included.

Dustin...which is it???

Dustin wrote: "Additionally, FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute. Since the Police will be minutes away at best they'll probably arrive to either find the shooter subdued, or the armed citizen among those lying on the ground." Dustn, you wrote that a couple posts up. Then you say the stats are from gun fights involving the police. So which is...gunfights themselves only last a minute and therefore the police are too late, or the gunfights involve the police and they only last a minute. Either way, you are throwing comments out that don't fit your arguements

Worded poorly

I apologize for wording it poorly. Rather than saying "FBI statistics show that most gunfights last well less than a minute" I should have said "FBI statistics show that most Police Officer involved gunfights last well less than a minute." I'm not aware of any statistics covering how long average CCW permit holder involved gun fights last. Even if they were to last twice as long (less than 2 minutes rather than less than 1 minute) the gun fight would still likely be over before the Police arrive in most cases, since the average Police arrival time in most areas is over 5 minutes from time of 911 call. In the case of Pearl Mississippi, the Vice Principle stopped the school shooter simply by aiming his gun at the shooter (which he he had run & retrieved from his own car) & was able to hold the shooter until Police arrived minutes later. In the case of Appalachian Law School two students who ran to get their guns from their cars were able to stop the shooter just by aiming their guns at him & telling him to drop his gun, after which students were able to tackle him to the ground & hold him for Police who arrived minutes later. I've named just 2 examples that ended well with armed citizens who were able to intervene with their own guns before Police could arrive. CCW carry is legal in 48 States, please name one event where your made up scenario has taken place (shooter was able to kill more people because Police were confused due to too many armed law abiding citizens at the scene).

I cannot name an event

I cannot name an event because it hasn't happened yet. I do have a problem with your two examples. In the cases that we have had, the shooter continue shooting even after LEO arrived. Do you honestly believe those incidents would not have occured because students had a weapon? VT and the like had an agenda and I seriously do not think they would have stopped just because a student or teacher pointed a gun at them and told them to stop

It hasn't happened yet

I could rest my case with your statement "It hasn't happened yet" in combination with the fact that multiple independent studies have shown that there are over 2 Million cases of self defense uses of a gun by average citizens every year in the US alone, 98% of the time without even needing to fire a shot, that in combination with the fact that roughly 2-3% of the citizens in most of the shall issue CCW states already have CCW permits & carry every but gun free zones. If it hasn't happened yet, odds are good that it won't happen often if it ever does, and adding one more location where CCW permit holders can carry isn't likely to change that. As for your question on why someone bent on shooting lots of disarmed defenseless victims with plans to shoot him or herself before the Police can confront them would be willing to put down their gun in the face of someone else aiming their gun at them, I'm not sure why they do. Perhaps it is before they're ready to die, perhaps they want to prepare themselves mentally to kill themselves. Perhaps it is because the thought of being shot by someone else before they are ready throws them off their game long enough to cause confusion. I do know that in both of those cases I mentioned the shooters had planned to off themselves & in both cases they put down their gun when confronted by an armed citizen commanding them to do so. Even if not, better for there to be a shootout between an armed citizen & the shooter than for the shooter to be able to continue his or her killing spree knocking off person after person with nobody around to attempt to stop it.

My comment has all the basis

Dustin....you said my comment about LEO taking longer to get into a building has no basis, so exactly where did you get your information from. Every time this issue comes up its the LEO that state it's not a good idea, it was LEO that said they would have trouble determining who was the bad guy and who was the good guy, and it was LEO that stated it would take longer for them to take action. I think I would listen to LEO, since they are the ones that would enter that building, over some guy who wants to promote something. And here's something else to think about. I am on campus and there is an attact. I run towards that attck and see the attacker just inside the building. I pull out my weapon as I get ready to engage him. Just then, an LEO comes up and tells me to drop my weapon. I turn to see the officer and now I am dead. I just turned and pointed my weapon at an officer. When you are in fight or flight, you cannot tell how you are going to act. And there is no procedure for any LEO that says the offender must fire at you first. If he turns towards you and his weapon is pointed in your general direction, that officer has every right to shoot you

If a citizen gets shot

I forgot to address your citizen aims gun at officer scenario. It is true that it is possible that a citizen could accidentally do something stupid in the presence of an Officer that could get him or herself shot. That type of situation is very rare, although I'm sure it probably has happened. It would be something anyone who makes the decision to carry would have to weigh in their decision to carry or not to carry. Personally I would rather take that very low risk over having no option other than to hide under a desk & wait to be shot. What we are discussing is the restoration of the freedom to choose to be armed to have the ability to defend oneself from attack by mugger, rapist, or mass shooter. Nobody would be forced to carry who does not wish to for any reason, whether that be because they don't want to take the time to do the training, or because they are worried they could accidentally point their gun at an officer, or any other reason one would decide not to carry that is open to the imagination. Remember too that concealed carry is already legal off campus, so the same type of scenario is already open to happen, this is not something new.