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Students wear empty holsters in protest

WILMINGTON -- Monday we told you about a group of UNCW students pushing to allow concealed weapons on campus for self-defense. Tuesday those students participated in a nation-wide protest. The UNCW students are among the thousands expected to wear empty holsters to class Tuesday. As part of "empty holster day", students wore empty gun holsters, symbolizing where guns would be on people at least 21 years old, who have the necessary permits. They also educated people who stopped by their table to learn more about carrying weapons on campus. Protesters say giving people the right to carry concealed weapons would protect themselves and others and help in an emergency. Kevin King carried an empty holster. He said, "It's just letting those people that already have concealed carry permits, which you have to be 21 to get already and you can carry them everywhere else, just allowing them to be able to carry them on campus, it's not giving students guns." The nation-wide organization Students for Concealed Carry on Campus sponsored the protest. That is not an official campus organization at uncw, but students are trying to change that. They will go before a review committee in the fall. The university released a statement expressing some concerns about carrying concealed weapons on campus:

As a university community, we respect the right of our students to express their positions on issues, including campus safety and security, which is an issue of vital importance to all of us. While allowing students to carry guns might appear to some individuals to be an option in deterring violence on campuses, it brings with it additional concerns for safety. One concern is the level of training and proficiency of the person carrying the weapon, including his or her ability to use it effectively and retain the weapon in a crisis situation. Many gun owners have been killed or injured with their own weapons while attempting an intervention. A second concern is the tactical complexity of introducing multiple weapons to a police emergency, which significantly elevates the probability that a well meaning citizen may be mistaken as an aggressor. Having multiple people carrying and using weapons during a situation such as an active shooter attack causes confusion about who is actually the perpetrator, which may result in additional injuries. We believe that there are other approaches and solutions to increasing campus safety and security that are more effective than allowing the proliferation of weapons on campus.

The best protection for any potential emergency is to be informed and aware. It is important to have a plan in place in advance to deal with crisis situations. A plan involving options on what a person can do to escape, where to hide (if escape is not an option), who to notify and where to rally with co-workers or classmates when the “all clear” is given are all points that need to be considered. UNCW Police offers “community response to violent situations” workshops to assist students, faculty and staff with how to plan and deal with a violent situation on campus, which cover areas of law enforcement response and familiarization with campus-wide emergency notification systems. Students are also encouraged to report any suspicious individuals or activity to UNCW Police and to be vigilant about security measures, such as not allowing unauthorized persons to enter locked residence halls.

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What about the other views?

Has anybody thought that maybe if they were allowed to carry on campus these "unstable" individuals you all talk about might think twice about opening fire in school? If you know there is a possibility that somebody has a gun on them you are most likely not gonna try to rob them, rape them, shoot at them, etc.

assess risks and implement controls

Your right but i have to admit we're not talking about high school (kids). These are adults who already carry off campus anyway. Has anyone brought up the idea of implementing an on campus training course for honing weapons skills and situational awareness. A semi-annual qualification course to test proficiency in order to sustain quals. A course similar to what the military uses (to train 18 year old recruits mind you) will be fine and doesn't need to be much more than a week long. There's also FATS simulation which is great for training shoot/don't shoot scenarios which is what they need the most. I'm not against them carrying guns but the schools are right about the things they're concerned about however, these issues and concerns can be kept to a minimum with good training and a proper campus qual/cert program.


Permit students to carry guns on a university campus? That one has to win the "2008 Just Plain Not Thinking Award." I'm just imagining a hotheaded gun totin' student showing up for office hours to complain about a test grade and not getting the answer he wants and not having the frontal lobe gears to inhibit his primitive impulse for "justice."

To much aggression

So I keep hearing a lot about the people that commit the crimes are not law abiding citizens. Yes, that is true, but only after their first instance of violence did these individual become criminals. For example, Seung-Hui Cho who opened fire at VT had committed no crimes before his shooting spree. Same goes for Steven Kazmierczak the shooter at N. Illinois University in Feb. of 08, and Jeffrey Weise the shooter at Red Lake High School in March of 2005. Just because someone does not have a criminal record does not mean that they are not capable of committing heinous acts. I personally do not feel that students should be allowed to carry concealed weapons on college campuses. I know individuals that have CC permits and honestly do not know why they were given to them in the first place. They are not stable and have no business even holding someone else’s weapon let alone owning one and carrying it with them all the time. That is not to say that these persons aren't good law abiding citizens. To address the second amendment, yes individuals should be allowed to bear arms, but there are limits. You will not be granted entrance onto a military base if you are carrying a concealed weapon that is of course unless you are a military serviceman. Will you be fighting for that right next? I do not feel that students in college have the mental stability to be able to assess a situation and determine that they should fire at another individual on a college campus. Their adrenaline and fear will overcome whatever training they have received in the two hour course they have taken to receive their CCP. Basically it is a law class that teaches you how to aim. As far as the background check is concerned, we have individuals in the FBI who go through much more extensive a background check than your local sheriff's department would ever dream of conducting committing acts of violence. For instance, Lindley DeVecchio who is being charged with consperiousee to commit murder and second degree murder for assisting in a mob hit in California in 2006. Finally, what would you do if you happened to live in a dorm room and carried a weapon? You're roommate (and this is strictly a hypothetical) is one of the "not so stable individuals" that you speak of and you just happen to forget to lock your gun safe or leave your key to your trigger lock laying out when you go to sleep one night. Are you going to feel safe knowing that same "unstable individual" now has access to your weapon, you, and an entire building of students who most of which are probably below the age of 21 and not able to carry a concealed weapon. I know I wouldn't!

Some people just don't get

Some people just don't get it. How many times after someone has comitted a violent crime you heard other people say " I never would have thought he was capable of doing such a thing" There are no way anyone could say that you are the perfect person so we will allow you to carry a gun. In the world today you really can't trust anyone. Even the people we are supposed to trust. Preachers, police, and even are goverment are prime examples.. WAKE UP PEOPLE. Students who have yet to really face the world and allow them to carry a gun. I don't care how much training how many class hours you have, they are not trained to handle a violent situation. This just opens the door for law suit after law suit.

Screw it, lets all wear guns

Screw it, lets all wear guns and just shoot it out. It would be the ok corrol in the middle of the universty commons.

Concealed weapons on campus

While allowing students to carry concealed weapons may seem like a great idea to deter violence, I for one believe that meeting violence with violence only begets more violence. Adding guns to campuses creates a false sense of security that in my opininon would only contribute to a elevated level of anxiety and fear. If this is what it has really come to, then we are truly living in the age of terror....very, very, sad indeed. "Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars... Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that." -Martin Luther King Jr.

Guns on college campus

You're absolutly right. There is nothing better than just laying down while someone shots you.


Isnt that how France got into WWII???


Over 18,000 people died behind the wheel of a car last year in the U.S. And most of them were licensed. College kids need to fret and worry about dying in a car wreck much more than from someone that is licensed to carry a concealed handgun which they have passed stringent standards to get. How many Mexicans and other illegal alien criminals are out there driving without a license? 400.000 give or take just in NC alone. How many shootings have happened in NC with people carrying a conceal handgun that was unjustified? 0, ZERO!, NONE! NADDA!

Legal concealed carriers are NOT THE ONES DOING THE KILLING

Over the past several years I do not recall even one instance where one of these shooting crazies that have caused murder and mayhem possessing a concealed carry permit. From years ago and the multiple murders at a McDonalds to this most recent event, not one was reported to have such a permit. Two obtain a concealed carry permit one most go through classroom training to make sure they understand the law. They then, must demonstrate a level of proficiency with their weapon on a firing range. Then, they must go through a background check conducted by the Local Sheriff's Department and the State of NC. The fact is, those that go through all the steps to acquire the permit have been well schooled, well screened, and are decent law abiding citizens. These are NOT the people to be feared. They are the people that one day may save you or one of your family members life. Acquiring a CC permit takes some time, effort, and proof of good citizenship. Obtaining a firearm however is not that difficult. The fastest and easiest way to obtain a firearm is to obtain one illegally. Those persons are the one's we should fear an those persons are the one's we should have the right to protect ourselves from. "When you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" When you restrict where a firearm may be legally carried then of course only the bad persons will be carrying them at that place. It is just that simple and the carnage is the proof of that fact.

Very true

Where are the murder capitals? Washington DC and Chicago, places where gun ownership is outlawed. These liberals need to learn that by turning in your weapons you become an easier mark.


Recent mock gunman

I seem to recall a recent mock gunman that entered a college classroom and no one knew it was just a simulation. I can only imagine the outcome if lots of students and staff were allowed to carry guns. And let's not forget that just because someone hasn't committed a crime or been found mentally unstable doesn't mean they are going to be an outstanding citizen with a cun on them. "OOps! I just shot an innocent bystander by mistake! Oh dear! But, hey! I shot a criminal too! Yey!" Andrew

You seem to forget

You seem to forget that if concealed carry was allowed then the "mock gunman" scenario would never ever be allowed to happen. Only the uninformed like you seem to think you know everything. In the permit process, you have to have people that will sign off on you being a sane and stable person in the first place. Again, your ignorance shows.

"people at least 21 years old, who have the necessary permits."?

The right of self-defense is a corollary to the right to life; to deny one is to deny the other. The purpose of government is to insure our rights, not to infringe on them. The fact is that governments should not be involved in permitting the carriage of weapons, either openly or concealed. Our constitution states that the right to keep (possess) and bear (carry) arms shall not be infringed. Marbury v. Madison (1803) decided that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and that any law that contradicts the Constitution is null and void. In Murdock v. Pennsylvania (1943) the Supreme Court stated that a constitutionally-protected right may not be licensed, nor a fee charged. The Right to Keep and Bear Arms is one of those protected natural rights. In Shuttlesworth v. Birmingham, Alabama (1962) the Supreme Court decided that “If the state does convert a liberty into a privilege, the citizen can engage in the right with impunity.” (That means they can't punish you, folks!) To paraphrase an oft-quoted movie line, "Permits? We don' need no steenking permits!"

You are correct, but on that

You are correct, but on that note every business has a right to not allow persons to carry concealed on their property. Should the US/State Government restrict the use of firearms, I think they have to. But that doesn't mean UNCW itself has to allow you to carry on their property

All we need is more guns on campus

If there is a show of more guns on campus how are you going to tell the good from the bad? Now if you see someone not in a police uniform with a gun you know they are the bad guys.

Guns & Education

You're joking right? Every one in a police uniform is a good guy? According to your "logic", you can tell that undercover agents are bad guys. No uniform/have gun. Everyone who has a gun and no police uniform is a bad guy in your world? The question is'nt really how am I going to tell the good from the bad, it's how are you, a confused person, going to tell the good from the bad. Every tax payer should be issued a gun and required to carry it. Unless... they are mentally ill or found guilty of violent crime. An armed society is a polite society. BTW, It's difficult to understand your comment without the proper punctuation and syntax. Go back and get an education.

What police????

How will you tell the good guys from the bad??? I recall, ALL of the major crimes that have occured on the UNCW campus, were police-free, that means, "There weren't any police around to prevent the crime!" Murders, Rapes, Assaults, thefts, etc. have been committed with nobody to stop them. The police simply are NOT in the right place at the right time as evidence proves. The criminals realize that their chances of opposition are extremely rare and their chances of being convicted are even more rare. They will continue to take advantage of the law that only the honest, law abiding citizens recognize. Seems to me that criminals wouldn't be quite so brazen if they knew there was a greater possibility for someone to draw a barrel down on them with a smile. I can guarentee you, I would love to witness an attempted rape or assault. The assailant would NOT escape!!!

What rapes and murders have

What rapes and murders have happened on UNCW campus?

You really didn't research the school you are going to!

Jessica Faulkner was murdered by a stalker, who happened to be a fellow student in Cornerstone.

are you kidding

seriously, are you?

I know a couple UNCW

I know a couple UNCW students that have been killed but they were done off campus. And as far as UNCW Police is concerned and them not being everywhere...exactly how is carrying concealed helped the Sheriff's Office or WPD? People with concealed permits carry all over the place and yet we still have a huge problem in our community with killings and armed robberies. Where are the concealed carriers when all this is going on? Having students carry concealed won't make any difference what so ever!

All we need

"If there is a show of more guns on campus how are you going to tell the good from the bad?" First, Adults who carry concealed weapons legally do not SHOW their sidearms. You don't even know which student has one. They don't dance like chubby checker waving a pistol around. Bad guy usually yelling, waving his stolen pistol around. Maybe a wild look in his eye. Good probability he's on crack. Starts shooting. Group A Good Guys Individual B Bad guy Your right about one thing, if you see someone not in police uniform with a gun firing at unarmed students he's the bad guy. You won't see anyone with CCP exposing their sidearm unless Individual B has an attack in progress and group A views circumstances that warrant intervention. In that case run and hide. Stay low behind professor Flatbottom. At least until they carry Individual B to the morgue or jail. Preferably the former.

UNCW Response = "Blah Blah Blah"

Translation... "We only want the criminals to carry guns on campus. After all, when someone robs you, all you have to do is call UNCW police and they will respond as soon as they are done with eating their Dunkin Donuts. Leave it up to others to protect you, you should not protect yourself." Typical liberal BS from people who have never held a job in the real world.

That is the problem right

That is the problem right there. Just because you are being robbed it does not entitle you to pull out your weapon and shoot someone...and that is what most students would do. The whole cliche about cops eating donuts is so old that when a person uses it, they loss all credibility they might of had.

That wouldn't

[quote] Just because you are being robbed it does not entitle you to pull out your weapon and shoot someone... [/quote] uhhh... that theory wouldn't work out well for anyone robbing me.... I think you would have some trigger happy folks no matter if they were a student or not. A "student" has as much right to protect themselves as you or I. I think you may be "assuming" that you would only be robbed and I kinda see where you are coming from. You would hope they only wanted money or something and go away after they get it BUT these idiots just shoot, stab, kidnap, rape and/or murder for kicks anymore it seems.... so.... I am going claim my life was in imminent danger and eliminate the threat. It's just my opinion that it's not worth betting your life on anymore.

Informed and aware

The best protection for any potential emergency is to be informed and aware. This was a statement from UNCW. Seems to be unsigned. I think it's best to be armed, legal, and proficient. Of course you can always wait for Rosemary DePaolo to purse whip an intruder. How many safe rooms are there for students? Be proactive, don't wait for trouble. Do something concrete. God knows college is expensive, hire more campus police. Take some of the bloat out of professors salaries and spend on real,preventative measures. Allow licensed concealed carry individuals. "which cover areas of law enforcement response and familiarization with campus-wide emergency notification systems. Students are also encouraged to report any suspicious individuals or activity to UNCW Police" Excellent plan. Sounds good to me. NOW SERIOUSLY, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO TO PREVENT TROUBLE? It seems UNCW is more interested in land deals and acquiring property than solid action. If this is the best UNCW officials can do, it's time for a change. Anyone with a child at UNCW should demand concrete action. Preventative action, not we'll blow a siren if there's trouble. I wouldn't have signed that statement either.

Gun Violence

I am aghast at the idea of people carrying guns. I am particularly appalled that the suggestion is coming from college students. The 2nd Amendment was to protect us from another country, such as England, re-conquering us, and the typical weapon was a musket. The gun craze and the love of violence in this country are very scary, and antithetical to our notion of ourselves as the most civilized and progressive country.

Gun Violence

So are you also aghast at the police who carry guns? They do so only because you, the citizen, empower them to do so. Your argument about the second amendment could not be farther from the fact. I will let the founding fathers attest in in their own words. One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. --- Thomas Jefferson to George Washington, 1796. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, [W]hereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them; nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle; and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it. ---Richard Henry Lee, The Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788. A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks. --- Thomas Jefferson to Peter Carr, 1785. The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, (Memorial Edition) Lipscomb and Bergh, editors. Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. Patrick Henry - Virginia ratifying convention June 2 through June 26, 1788 No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms. ---Thomas Jefferson: Draft Virginia Constitution, 1776. [W]hen the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually...I ask, who are the militia? They consist of now of the whole people, except a few public officers. But I cannot say who will be the militia of the future day. If that paper on the table gets no alteration, the militia of the future day may not consist of all classes, high and low, and rich and poor... ---George Mason -- Virginia ratifying convention June 2 through June 26, 1788 They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. ---Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759. To model our political system upon speculations of lasting tranquility, is to calculate on the weaker springs of the human character. ---Alexander Hamilton [T]he people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full possession of them. -Zacharia Johnson [C]onceived it to be the privilege of every citizen, and one of his most essential rights, to bear arms, and to resist every attack upon his liberty or property, by whomsoever made. The particular states, like private citizens, have a right to be armed, and to defend, by force of arms, their rights, when invaded.-Roger Sherman [The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation...(where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. ---James Madison,The Federalist papers, No. 46. To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws. ---John Adams, A Defence of the Constitutions of the United States 475 (1787-1788) John Adams recognizes the fundamental right of citizens, as individuals, to defend themselves with arms, however he states militias must be controlled by government and the rule of law. To have otherwise is to invite anarchy. and finally for a modern ending. How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded over, controlled, supervised, and taken care of. — Representative Suzanna Gratia Hupp (TX)