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Supporters of Titan plant

Submitted by WWAY on Fri, 02/13/2009 - 7:44pm.READ MORE:

In an effort to bring more jobs to southeastern North Carolina, local business leaders have come together to support a controversial new cement plant in Castle Hayne. Carolinas Cement, a Titan America subsidiary, has been a source of heated debate in our area. While opponents have been very vocal in voicing their opinions, supporters have been harder to come by, until now. Bob Warwick is heading a group of Wilmington business leaders called the Coalition for Economic Advancement. “A city either grows or it dies. There's not such thing as sitting still,” Warwick said. The group launched newjobsforwilmington.com. The not-for-profit website supports bringing new jobs like the 160 Carolina Cement plans to provide to the area. Carolinas Cement has said it would train local students to fill many of the positions at the plant. Members of the group Stop Titan counter the plant could result in more lost jobs than it will provide. “One of the reasons is nobody else is going to want to move in if there's a big heavy polluting cement plant out in the corner of the county,” said one member Joel Bourne. The website newjobsforwilmington.com lists several reasons for supporting Carolina Cement, one of which says the members of stop titan don't live in the area. But don't tell that to Joel Bourne. “This is my house Mr. Warwick, I live in Bayshore. I'm a resident of Wilmington.” Carolina Cement is beginning the environmental permitting process that would allow them to start construction on the new facility. The plant would provide 1000 jobs for two years during the construction phase.

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A Better Economic Jobs Plan. And it is Not Concrete!!

Submitted by Hamilton (not verified) on Sun, 01/17/2010 - 1:16am.

For the past 10-15 years, the Cape Fear Region population doubled. Developers build hundreds and hundreds of new homes (and as an aside, they didn't need a local cement provider!) The economic engine was strong, yet hidden in plain sight from our political-influence holders (so many are so lame). As demonstrated by the "young familily with children" demographic swelling our public and ever-expanding choice of private schools, filling the restaurants, stores, shops, parks, beaches, etc.....this growth was NOT fueled by "retirees." Many good earners moved here because they could, and wanted to (because of the liberation afforded knowledge workers by technology) and have fueled a new economy that doesn't need to take shady tax-break and other handouts, or produce pollution and disruption to the quality of our fragile eco-systems. This movement brought hundreds and hundreds of great earners to our region. The film industry, pharma, software, medical and scientific devices, consulting and contract services, supply chain management, green energy, marine technology, and many more...these are the industries creating the Cape Fear Region economic and business identity for the 21st century. Fully realized, they are firms like PPD, Castle Branch, Verizon Wireless, Trans1, Digieffects, and countless others. With all due respect to the old timers trying to hold on to the relics of their once appropriate, now terribly dated mid-20th century heavy industry identity...move aside! The job creation strategy that our (weak) local economic development "leadership" should begin with their first studying and grasping the type of jobs (and businesses) that fueled our growth from '96-'06. They should tell our citizens what regional competitors like Savannah and Charelston are doing to embrace the new-economy, and undertake other such reality-based exercises such that Wilmington's 21st century business identity doesn't become a cement-centric laughingstock. If we learned anything here from the ABC fisaco (yet another black eye to our regions's collective regional-national "identity"), we should know that it should be IN WITH THE YOUNG and out with the old (OLD!). Sorry folks, this isn't the Vatican. We should not have 70-80 year old white guys running the show, with their beholden middle-aged proxies following in their now plodding footsteps! Let this next generation show us the way. Read Chris Boney's recent opnion piece in the Wilmington Business Journal---hooray Chris!!) Let them lead, and let them innovate, create and show us the way to long-term regional prosperity. The silent majority supports the new way. Let it happen. In this special PLACE we call home, so that our economic future is secured. Who knows, maybe the rising young meritocracy here will actually figure out a way to create enough compelling good paying jobs so that all their kids and grandkids can STAY here for great jobs in a richly vibrant, clean, green, and beautiful place!

Hooray for Hamilton!

Submitted by Lloyd (not verified) on Sun, 01/31/2010 - 12:01am.

Hamilton, please come join the Cape Fear Economic Development Council at capefearedc.org. We are clearly on the same page about things. The same invitation is extended to other like-minded folks. Ifd you are interested in a better economic vision for our future, come join us and help move the dialog along.

man are yall for all this

Submitted by jz (not verified) on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 5:22pm.

man are yall for all this pollution and the fact of the matter is i live in wilmington

We have already had one cement plant.

Submitted by Robert (not verified) on Thu, 06/18/2009 - 4:06pm.

We have already had one cement plant and what damage did it do?? I have not had anyone give the horror stories from the years with the Ideal plant in Wilmington. Where is the mercury poisoning from that plant and where are the injured children from being in the same county that the old Ideal plant was in??? Talk to some of the people who worked there about the good pay and working conditions and how sorry they were when it closed. That was a old plant without the stringent EPA rules that we have today. As far as the mining operation affecting the water supply just open your eyes and see that there are already at least three quarries out there already and Titan will take over one existing quarry and not open a new one. There is a quarrie up in Holley Shelter that is supplying water to the county. Good luck

No one seems to have a problem with other projects.

Submitted by Guest1050 (not verified) on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 11:32pm.

Didn't a company just get a contract to increase fuel oil/gas facilities on the river? Anyone have any idea what happens if just one of those ships runs aground or has a spill? Oh yeah, that's right, concrete won't help us to get to port city java run or a save the Cape Fear Meeting. Hypocrites.

who you callin a Hypocrite

Submitted by jz (not verified) on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 5:27pm.

who you callin a Hypocrite man has there ever been an oil spill here?

Will it matter then?

Submitted by Fromthesoul01 (not verified) on Sat, 02/14/2009 - 7:57pm.

So I guess all you people that are against bringing in new jobs to the area walk around in fig leaves and eat dirt. Do any of you have any idea of what the industry that is here dose for the pleasures of your life? The sulfuric acid plant that is used to control the ph in your drinking water. The DMT plant that makes the base for the plastics that is in every vehicle and home. The trash incinerator and landfill that disposes of your house hold waste. The Chromium plant that makes the chemicals needed to treat the lumber your home is made of and the reflective signs easier to see. The storm water runoff that collects the fluids from your vehicles and brake dust and tire wear. And steam plant that produces electricity. And the nuclear rod plant LOL. All of these are “watched” by the EPA LOL. And every one has had releases over its allowed release amounts of toxins. All of these are in New Hanover County. All of these have given a lot of people good jobs and a lot of families’ good lives. Now I read that the layoffs are starting and the state is borrowing money for unemployment. So what will you do when your money runs out and there is no work. Go sit at the swamp and watch the opossums eat go to the beach and lick the dirty plates of the tourist? Not me, my family will eat and will have shelter one way or another. If it has to be “it will be” at your table under your roof. If there is any chance of more opportunities to feed our families we best take them. And for the fig wearing dirt eaters just think real hard what you will do when you swipe that card or pull those bills from the pocket and they aren’t there. Will any of the dust matter to you then?

Jobs

Submitted by PaganHeart (not verified) on Fri, 03/27/2009 - 3:37pm.

When everyone's dead of mercury poisoning those jobs aren't really going to matter.

Jobs Vs. Environment

Submitted by Figleaf (not verified) on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 5:13pm.

The jobs at any price crowd love to attach negative labels to people concerned about the environment. It's their way of detracting from the real issue. These people can't see past their own nose or wallet. The argument using the nuclear and chemical plants already located along the banks of the already polluted Cape Fear River is a mute point. One can only now hope that the EPA will do it's job before and not after a major incident. "So what will you do when your money runs out and there is no work. Go sit at the swamp and watch the opossums eat go to the beach and lick the dirty plates of the tourist?" How asinine. Where do you think your food comes from. Having a job means nothing if the food chain is so polluted it's not safe for consumption by anything or anyone. I may have to eat that possum and drink from that swamp. You may rely on Wal-Mart or your local grocery store to always be there with an infinite supply of food waiting for you, I'll be trying to find a patch of land that's not already polluted to grow and raise mine. So please go ahead and defend the future cement plant polluters. That head of lettuce, tomato or ear of corn will be $20 each, just for you. Keep your cement.

Hey! Mad Max....

Submitted by Commonsensenotc... on Sun, 02/15/2009 - 6:20pm.

Has it occurred to you that we call you names because you're a bunch of Chicken Little alarmists? I wouldn't start tilling that subsistence garden just yet. Titan will not mean the end of civilization in the Cape Fear region. The toursist will continue to come, the Yankee infidels will continue to invade, and when all the uproar finally dies down, we will simply have cheaper cement and concrete in the region.

who said it be the end of

Submitted by jz (not verified) on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 5:32pm.

who said it be the end of the civilization and no the tourist wont continue to come for fear of the polluted air

Is that all you've got

Submitted by Fig Leaf (not verified) on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 2:46pm.

Name calling? No facts to back up your argument FOR this added pollution in our area? Figures.

Here's what I've got...

Submitted by Commonsensenotc... on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 3:29pm.

Let the law prevail. If Titan meets the required standards for emmissions, issue the permit. If the ACE decides they pose no threat to wetlands or aquifers, issue the permits. The simple fact is that the sane minds are saying "let the process play out normally." If they can't meet the requirements than no, they can't build. If they DO meet the requirements under existing law, then they build. It's the anti-Titan crowd who are hysterically screaming for the law to be ignored, and mob rule prevail. Until you accept the rule of law, you have no credibility. Don't like the law? Change the law. Until then, we follow the law. It really IS that simple!

Totally Agree

Submitted by WilmingtonMAJ on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 5:05pm.

Once again, I couldn't agree more Common. Let the law prevail. Mob mentality has proved again and again to NOT work and not be good for the law.

Thanks

Submitted by WilmingtonMAJ on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 10:14am.

Thanks Common. I think it's hilarious some of the nuts around this county arguing against this plant. I was driving down Mohican Road off South College yesterday and saw a stop Titan sign in someones yard. We are talking what...20 miles from where the plant would be. Wow...talk about get a life and find something better to do.

You should pay a little more

Submitted by Seaside Pediatrics (not verified) on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 3:13pm.

You should pay a little more attention. Studies show that some of the mercury that deposits in the United States (a fair percentage in some of those studies) actually comes from industrial sites as far away as China - so 20 miles is certainly reason to be concerned. Other studies show that local deposition of mercury from cement kilns is affected by terrain (closer deposition in flatter terrain) and humidity (closer deposition in humid climates). Sound like Wilmington? I will debate or discuss this issue all day with you if you like, even come to your neighborhood association meeting to answer questions. People need to pay attention. I think this is potentially the largest risk to public health to ever threaten Wilmington.

By that logic

Submitted by WilmingtonMAJ on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 3:50pm.

Well then, by that logic let's ban automobiles, smoking, electricity, and all of the other items that are "potentially" threatening to our health. Oh and by the way, living this close to the ocean is dangerous, all that water in storms and the life, better just close down the city because we wouldn't want anyone to get hurt by that either. The whole argument is based on what-ifs, not facts. The facts are that this plant will bring jobs. The facts are that it is NOT up to count commissioners or the public to just up and decide to not allow a business to operate if they have gone through the proper legal channels and regulatory councils.

Fact - mercury is a potent

Submitted by Seaside Pediatrics (not verified) on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 6:59pm.

Fact - mercury is a potent neurotoxin, more potent in fetuses, infants, and small children. Fact - The Amerian Academy of Pediatrics has stated that "minimizing exposure to mercury is essential to optimal child health". Fact - recent studies have found links between air pollution and preterm birth, infant mortality, deficits in lung growth and, possibly the development of asthma, and studies have proven a link between air pollution and asthma exacerbations and hospitalizations. Fact - our elected officials worked on this deal behind closed doors for three years. If there wasn't anything to hide, why do it secretively? Fact - equating harm from natural events like hurricanes to man-made pollution and toxin release is absurd. That's like comparing being born with a cleft palate to getting mouth cancer from chewing tobacco. Some things just happen, some things you ask for.

Seaside, don't bother

Submitted by Fig Leaf (not verified) on Tue, 02/17/2009 - 10:39am.

Your FACTS are correct but some don't care about facts. They think government will keep them safe from the people and companies like Titan that want to pollute our wetlands and further degrade our water quality for the sake of a buck. They spout "rule of law" as if it's some sort of shield that will instantly protect them. Mean while, the lack of law enforcement and manipulation of "the law", by lawyers and politicians continue to erode this country into a socialist black hole. Illegal immigration is just an example of how great the rule of law is.

Are you taking your ball and going home?

Submitted by Commonsensenotc... on Tue, 02/17/2009 - 7:28pm.

Obviously, you can't counter the argument about following the law, so you'd prefer to sulk with your fellow Nimby-ite. "Don't bother, Seaside. WAAAAHHH!" Sorry if we trust the EPA more than you self-appointed experts.

FACT: We have an EPA

Submitted by Commonsensenotc... on Mon, 02/16/2009 - 10:09pm.

FACT: We have an Army Corps of Engineers. FACT: We have a wealth of federal and state laws that establish what are acceptable levels of pollutants produced by any industrial facility. FACT: You don't want to follow those laws, you want to substitute your opinion in place of those laws. As I said earlier, if you don't like the law, get it changed. Until then, the rule of law must prevail. Anything less is anarchy. If Titan meets the air quality required by current law, then the permit should be issued NOW.

Commonsense - you don't seem

Submitted by Seaside Pediatrics (not verified) on Tue, 02/17/2009 - 11:18pm.

Commonsense - you don't seem to have any. Ask the folks in Midlothian (Cement Capital of the World), Texas if the Corps of Engineers, state, and federal laws have protected them from the effects of having 5 cement kilns, all within a 6.5 mile radius. And all 5 together emit less mercury per year than Titan plans to (~200 vs. 263lbs). Do you know that unless a cement kiln is permitted to burn hazardous waste, that the facility is allowed to self-report their emissions, many of which have been proven to be gross underestimates? So the EPA isn't really protecting you, in this case they seem to be protecting industry. Follow the law or change the law? The EPA has refused to comply with several federal court orders (over the past 10 years) forcing them to comply with Congressional-mandated reductions in cement kiln mercury emissions. If you wait for the regulatory agencies to protect you, you're going to wait a long time. Try reading up on the issue before making nonspecific remarks. I have been gathering information for the past 9 months, and will continue to try and learn as much as I can so that I can make an informed decision about the project. By the way, I went to all three workshops sponsored by Titan, and a private dinner sponsored by them, so that I could get both sides of the argument. After those, I am more convinced that this project is wrong for Wilmington, and could have significant negative health, environmental, and economic impacts for years to come. Enough common sense for you.

Are you the only expert?

Submitted by Commonsensenotc... on Thu, 02/19/2009 - 7:28pm.

What makes you think that other people haven't "read about it," researched it, and reached a conclusion different than yours? There's no such thing as a free lunch, Doc. EVERYTHING has it's trade-offs. You weigh the risks, you weigh the rewards, you make a decision. In this case the geology, the geographic location, and the prevailing Westerlies make this an ideal location for a cement kiln, and far outweigh the potential risks. Do you think Titan is stupid enough to court a multi-million dollar lawsuit ten years from now? Do you think they haven't learned anything about our sue-happy society? You guys are getting nowhere by attacking the efficacy of the governmental regulatory agencies - THEY are all we have. If you discount the ACE, the EPA, and any other agency ordained by law to make these decisions, who is the substitute? What replaces them? Mob rule by a bunch of UNCW sophomores who can't decide if they want to be enviroinmentalists or Rastafarians?

So far you haven't made any

Submitted by Seaside Pediatrics (not verified) on Thu, 02/19/2009 - 11:46pm.

So far you haven't made any real valid points, just spouted rhetoric. Show me the data that mercury improves neuronal migration in developing brains, that particulate matter makes lungs stronger, that damaging fish nurseries improves fish stocks, and that local construction projects will benefit from cheaper cement bcause it's made right at home, then we've got a debate. You are right about one thing. Titan has chosen Wilmington as an ideal location for a cement kiln because they have everything they need here to make cement cheaply. It's all about profit margin - do you really think they care about the community of Wilmington? And once they have lined their pockets, polluted our air and water, depleted the limestone and pulled out of Wilmington, who is left with the cleanup? And who is this mob that you keep talking about? Are you that afraid of dissenting opinion that you resort to depicting people who are genuinely concerned about the place in which they live, work, play and raise their children as criminals and "anarchists". You are missing the point. This is a big "what if" or "maybe", and once it's here, it's a "definite".

cement!

Submitted by river rat (not verified) on Mon, 08/03/2009 - 10:08am.

I am One of "those children"! My father worked at Ideal Cement for over twenty years! We lived 9 miles away, we swam in the area river, we fished the area waters, we still do! NONE of us have suffered any type of disability or sickness. Not my fathers children, not his grandchildren, nor his great grand children! Let Carolina Cement Company in! If they can get the permits the EPA will take care of the rest.

...and so far all you have sone is...

Submitted by Commonsensenotc... on Fri, 02/20/2009 - 8:16am.

..is spout that we can't trust Titan, we can't trust the EPA, we can't trust the Army Corps of Engineers, and we can't trust any of the state agencies reviewing the project because they're all part of some hidden-agenda conspiracy to kill people. Wow! Here's a thought - what if Titan actually DOES meet all the environmental requirements, and DOESN'T produce emissions at a level to cause major harm? What if the particulate and mercury emissions are within acceptable levels? Yeah, yeah...I understand. There's absolutely no way that's possible.....because you people CLAIM it's impossible. We're supposed to believe and trust you people, not the regulatory agencies. You have the Magic 8-Ball! We should ignore the federal and state agencies, and let corporations deal with an infinite number of local groups across the nation, establishing standards based upon....what? How does any corporation know what standard they have to meet if there ARE no standards, just a bunch of Cassandras predicting gloom and destruction and setting their own demands? So you dismiss my "rhetoric" and I'll dismiss your tin-foil hat conspiracy theories and anti-corporate bias. ("It's ALL about the profit margin") I trust that you don't ignore a healthy profit margin at your practice? Is your profit margin good, but Titan's bad? Oh, in answer to your question, "the mob" is any group of people screaming to ignore the rule of law in any circumstance whatsoever. You're screaming to lynch Titan even though they may very well satisfy all requirements and have a legal right to build. The law may come down squarely on their side, but that's not good enough for you. So say what you want to about my "rhetoric," but it makes a better argument than your presumptive predictions and advocacy of what is tantamount to anarchy. That's what this entire issue boils down to. It's not Titan vs stoptitan.org....it's a majority of people who understand the importance of rule and order in society fighting a bunch of radicals screaming to throw the law out the window. It's about people like you, who believe that your own personal likes and dislikes somehow trump Titan's LEGAL rights. Let the regulatory process proceed just as it normally would. If Titan meets the current legal requirements, Titan gets to build. If they can't meet the requirements, they don't build. That's hardly a pro-Titan stance. It's an anti-anarchy stance. For some reason, it's a solid middle ground upon which you refuse to stand.

You still haven't stated any

Submitted by Seaside Pediatrics (not verified) on Sat, 02/21/2009 - 12:56am.

You still haven't stated any facts, and I don't expect you will. Final two points. 1. Titan is seeking a permit to emit 263 pounds of mercury per year, every year, over the next 30-50 years. Mercury is a neurotoxin. The EPA itself has stated that as many as 1.6 million Americans are potentially at risk from food contaminated by mercury pollution that enters the environment principally as the result of human activities (Mercury Study Report to Congress, 1997). The National Academy of Sciences (which supported the EPA's reference dose of methylmercury) has stated that as many as 80,000 pregnant women are potentially exposed to levels of mercury that could cause irreversible neurologic damage to their unborn babies (Toxicologic Effects of Methylmercury, 2000). Researchers have stated that there is no evidence to date validating the existence of a threshold blood mercury level below which adverse effects on cognition are not seen (Trasande, Landrigan, and Schecter - Mount Sinai School of Medicine, Children's Hospital(Boston), Harvard Medical School, and Albert Einstein Medical School). 2. Any profit margin that I earn comes from promoting, protecting and improving health, NOT ENDANGERING IT.

Is this the same person that

Submitted by Fig Leaf (not verified) on Fri, 02/20/2009 - 12:00pm.

From one of your many former posts; "would step over a starving baby to climb into my Hummer before I would surrender to a government that would mandate that I not drive that Hummer or that I MUST feed that baby". Rule of law Common, rule of law.

Exactly right!

Submitted by Commonsensenotc... on Fri, 02/20/2009 - 1:14pm.

That is why I work within the law to insure that the move toward Socialism stops. If that effort fails and we become some Western Europe clone, rest assured that I'll be leaving the country of my birth. See, there's the difference - I choose to influence the law as best I can, you want to ignore it. Hey! You might consider leaving when the Titan cement plant fires up the kiln...

What laws are we ignoring?

Submitted by Fig Leaf (not verified) on Fri, 02/20/2009 - 11:17pm.

No one is asking for laws to be ignored, just enforced. The EPA itself has ignored a federal court order In addition to defying the Clean Air Act and repeated court orders to set standards for mercury emissions. They still haven't. You may want to leave the country but I'll stand and fight for what I believe is right. You may trust the EPA and government to protect you, I don't.

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