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Ballpark opponent states his case after proponent backs out of on-air debate

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WILMINGTON, NC (WWAY) -- When it comes to bringing a ballpark to Wilmington, everyone has an opinion, but there are two particular groups that are not shy about voicing theirs.

WWAY had two guests confirmed to join Ashley Jacobs on "Good Morning Carolina" today for a live debate on the issue, but a representative from a pro-ballpark group backed out.

Chuck Kuebler from Port City Baseball agreed to talk about why he thinks a publicly-funded stadium is a good idea for Wilmington. However, he later contacted WWAY to say he would not be willing to come on our show. Kuebler said the group could not talk, but would not explain why.

Instead of the debate that was planned, Josh Fulton, a Wilmingtonian against a publicly-funded stadium, had the floor to himself.

Disclaimer: Comments posted on this, or any story are opinions of those people posting them, and not the views or opinions of WWAY NewsChannel 3, its management or employees. You can view our comment policy here.

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Duke, are you not confusing

Duke, are you not confusing Memorial Day with Independence Day?

Duke,are you not confusing?

No,games after ceromonies,this a family day.
Baseball a big part of our Heritage

Josh Fulton is just trying

Josh Fulton is just trying to make a name for him because he thinks this is the way to get his foot into the door of the political arena. What he does not realize is there is no and I mean no way that the good old boy system here will ever let that happen. By the way, to the council members and all those that support him you had better make sure he is not falsifying any documents. I know that some of the people who signed his petition had no idea of what they were signing. His group passed it around at the neighborhood meeting at the Pine Valley Elementary School during the meeting on the proposed Housing Authority development. They did not announce who they were, or what their paper was for. Many who were there did not read the top of the paper and assumed they were signing the attendance record for the meeting. Pretty shisty. If he will do this who is to know what else he has done.
As for me, I do not need anyone one, especially a know it all that has not lived life speaking for me. I went to UNCW as well, I was born and raised here and frankly, I am tired of him embarrassing UNCW. Whether I am for it or against it, I can do it myself. I can speak directly to the Council members. I have always done this and I always will so Josh needs to find another political agenda- or better yet, he needs to get a life, get some real experience and truly understand government operations. It is great to run your mouth but until you have been there, you truly cannot know. Besides we all know that those who can do and those who cannot teach. If he wants to make a difference in the community then he needs to really give to this community through community service.

Jrobi, I'm pretty sure you

Jrobi,

I'm pretty sure you don't know me, so it's surprising you would cast aspersions on my character. Oh wait a second. No it's not. That's all people like you do. You don't have facts so you resort to ad hominem. Pathetic.

Firstly, I'm not doing this to "get my foot in the political door." If you knew anything about me, knew any of my friends, you'd know it's far from a settled fact that I'll run for City Council again. In fact, if I had to make a bet on it right now, I'd bet against it. I'm doing this because it has to be done. Period. If other people want to step up, go ahead do it. If Ben and I hadn't stepped up, I'm virtually sure this thing wouldn't have gotten done. It needed leaders, and because we had the idea we were the de facto leaders. Trust me, it hasn't been easy on either one of us, but it needed to be done, so we did it. Can you say you've done something like that, whatever side of the political isle you're on?

Secondly, I have no idea what you mean by members of "my group" presented the petition at Pine Valley Elementary School. In case you haven't realized, I don't know everybody who gets signatures. 80% of the city doesn't want their property taxes raised for this. Is that too much for your conspiratorial mind to grasp?

See, jrobi, I'm not sure if this will get through to you, but if not you can give me your real identity and we can talk it out face to face. But I'm not sure you'd like to do that. I think you'd rather hide behind a computer screen. Frankly, that's where I like you too. Cowards like you belong there, throwing rocks, while real leaders are in the real world getting things done. So, you just stay there and we'll have the last laugh when your side is crushed in defeat.

It needed to be done-says

It needed to be done-says who? So, you have just insulted the residents of Wilmington by saying they could not have own their own voiced their own opinion and they could not have stood up for themselves without you.
Have I ever done something more courageous than running my mouth? You bet. I am an Army veteran and I have stood so that idiots like you with your pompous attitudes and self-serving BS can say what you say.
Now on to your statement “Secondly, I have no idea what you mean by members of "my group" presented the petition at Pine Valley Elementary School. In case you haven't realized, I don't know everybody who gets signatures. 80% of the city doesn't want their property taxes raised for this. Is that too much for your conspiratorial mind to grasp?” - Ever heard of reliability. A survey, petition, etc. is invalid without it. If you are not verifying the signatures and do not even know who is getting the signatures or how they are obtained then the paper they are on is worthless. 80%- really? What great study did you do for this number? Anyone can spout numbers; all you are doing is playing on people's emotions. Maybe if you come out of the clouds or off the beach and spend some time legitimately doing something you might have some creditability. What solutions are you working on to improve the economic situation of our community? Anyone can shout no at the top of his or her lungs but those who offer solutions are the real change makers.

I noticed you said property owners do not want their not ours. I am a property owner and whatever way I feel I do not need someone who has no experience paying property taxes saying anything on my behalf. Maybe you would understand this if you were a property owner.
Now on to your final statement: “Frankly, that's where I like you too. Cowards like you belong there, throwing rocks, while real leaders are in the real world getting things done. So, you just stay there and we'll have the last laugh when your side is crushed in defeat.” – Name calling, yes please show who you really are! What are you- 2years old? Cowards-really? What courageous thing have you really done? I believe you have committed a deflection, which is often done when someone cannot face the truth. Perhaps your time would be better spent in writing an informative book and you could call it “Josh Fulton, the Fallacy of Myself”. A great leader-really? Leadership is an art and a science. It is an art because it continually evolves, changes form, and requires creativity. It is a science because there are certain essential principles and techniques required. A good leader knows when it is time to change style because they are highly attentive to all of those around them. A great leader is not prideful and seeks neither acclamation nor fame. A great leader takes risks to lead a community to greatness not dissatisfaction and destruction.

As far as my side getting crushed-I never said what side I was on, or can’t you read. In fact, the only thing I said was that I don’t need someone like you speaking for me and then I suggested that instead of complaining about everything that is done you could have some grace and do some real community service.

You and Ben should pay some property taxes before forming a mob

You and your buddy Ben are beyond ludicrous. Two guys who stand up and scream about "our taxes" when you don't even contribute to Wilmington's tax base because you don't own homes.

It seems you are capitalizing on the current political discourse and baiting people into signing petitions by using the ever popular "raising taxes" rhetoric before the economic study and final plan has been presented.

What possible benefit do either of you get from this beyond narcissistic attention? Your property taxes wont change because you don't pay any.

Tell you what. When you leave college, spend a decade or so in the adult workforce, pay taxes on a home... get back to me on how you think "our" taxes should be spent.

I, and I hope others will agree, am certainly not going to look to a student and a serial complainer with a blog for leadership on how multimillion dollar city planning should be executed.

You think it's been unpleasant so far? Think what it will be like if half the people in this city despise you because your narcissistic actions cost the city a Minor League ball team and multi-use stadium, all for the taxpayer cost of what will probably amount to a weekly coffee at Port City Java when it's all said and done.

But that's not how it will play out. Your 3,000 signatures represents nothing more than a small slice of the population and will accomplish about as much as either of your City Council campaigns. Some people obsessed with tea party rhetoric will make you feel important, but when it's all said and done the tax payers will be presented with a minor league stadium and team. Taxes will go up a bit, and people will move on with their lives.

@jrobi - you seem to have

@jrobi - you seem to have that Chuck Kuebler condition - plenty brave and mouthy behind a keyboard, but you people never confront anything in person.

First of all, nobody is forcing anyone to sign our petition - if you are too stupid to read something you are signing your name to, then you have bigger problems than a baseball stadium. And I don't think the school attendance record asks for your birth date and how long you have lived in Wilmington - but I realize that you were making all of that completely up, because you are desperate for Wilmington taxpayers to buy you a stadium, and since you can't argue for it rationally, you resort to making up lies about those with whom you oppose. No one is falsifying anything - and you know it.

It's people like you who are the embarrassment - your idea of being "involved" in local politics in to show up from time to time anonymously on a local news site, and concoct lies about people volunteering a huge amount of their time and energy trying to make Wilmington a better place - even if you disagree with the issue at hand. Do you think that there has been any glory in this at all? There's glory in having to deal with anonymous internet tough guys like you who make stuff up daily to avoid having to actually deal with their position on the issue?

response to Ben

Oh thank you for trying to use an insult. Those who are immature often revert to name calling and using stereotypes. You are correct. I do not confront anything, or at least not the same way you do. Instead, I prefer to take my time, analyze and offer solutions. Every social change effort grows from a core of one or a few strong pushing to get things done not making noise. Given the fact that you are not offering any plausible solutions so that is adventure is a win-win for everyone and you are bent on being divisive, confrontational and only looking to say no to everything, here are some quotes for you.
"If a problem has no solution, it may not be a problem, but a fact - not to be solved, but to be coped with over time." - Shimon Peres (1923 - ), 9th President of the State of Israel.
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” ― Leo Tolstoy
Those who "get it" understand how things work and have a strategy to create the results they want. Those who don't are stumbling along looking puzzled, and can be found complaining that they never seem to get a break.-author unknown
Don't play the role of victim, or use past events to build excuses. It guarantees you no progress, no healing, and no victory. You will never fix a problem by blaming someone else. Whether the cards that fall are good or bad, you're in charge of yourself now.-author unknown
The first step to change,... is accepting your reality right now. Honoring a process. Compassionate self-awareness leads to change; harsh criticism only holds the pattern in place, creating a stubborn and defensive being. Be gentle with others as you would with a child. Be gentle but firm. Give everyone the space to grow. However, remember that the timing is not in your hands.-author unknown
The people who are lifting the world onward and upward are those who encourage more than they criticize-Elizabeth Harrison

School attendance record- What are you talking about? I was talking about your petition being passed around a neighborhood meeting on a housing project with no acknowledgement of what it was. By the way, not an appropriate place to do this. Here is an idea, if you want to make change here- work with affordable housing groups or work with council on finding solutions to address this need. Once again, just like your partner you are making assumptions by stating that I am desparate for the city to give money for the stadium. I have never said whether I was for it or against it. I said I was against you and your tactics. Nevertheless, I do realize that in today’s world, public private partnerships are about the only way to get things done and I do know that change happens. I just want those who are speaking to really mean it and have a legitimate reason to speak.
Yes, it is people like me. Real citizens, who live here, work here, raise my family here and will die here. It is people like me who do not think I am entitle to speak if I do not bother to research. It is people like me that everyday make a difference in my community. Why don’t you try being a part of Wilmington before you decide it needs to be made a better place to live? By whose standards? Tell me, when was the last time you helped an elderly person, when was the last time you fed the hungry, when was the last time you loved the unloving? When was the last time you did anything real for someone other than yourself? I am involved in my government process but you know what? I care more about proper governing and my fellow man than I do about politics or being noticed for my name. Why don’t you take this Memorial Day to quit complaining about the way things are run and reflect on all that you have and the sacrifices of all those that came before to make it happen and go out and really make a difference?

McCoy for once...shut up.

McCoy for once...shut up. You are just white noise man. Dumb 7 foot tall white noise.

Jrobi. Rock on dude.

McCoy for once...shut up.

Or Ben,
know the proposal at hand,know before you comments and May29th you can see site selected for PROSPERITY

@jrobi

Ben,
Who are you kidding,that Kuebler guy is all around this area talking about Baseball,the economic impact,Stadium,Braves he knows his baseball and beware as if you have never met him he always seems to be in "the moment,arena"
How?
No idea,and wish you luck

Josh

I think if he wants Community Service plenty of spaces at Hugh Macrae Park,they have alot of Community Service Workers out there.

Bsaeball and Stadium

The opinions,facts and positions have all been stated over and over and over again for the past 3-4 months.
Battle Lines are in place and you are either "for" or "against" this issue.
Next week City and Mayor will reveal a plan for Wilmington's future.
Will your LEGACY be either..

1.We built something special to transform this area.
or.
2.We tore it down,ripped it apart and let "petty jealousies" prevent transormtion and progression.

What will YOUR legacy be?
What will YOU tell your kids,grandchildren?

I helped build it?
or.
I helped destroy it?

duke

Your emotion is a great thing, hold on to it. It takes a lot of emotion and confidence to make great things happen. I want to see the Ball Park and the Braves come to Wilmington. We are reaching a point where it's harder to succeed than fail. Don't be too disappointed or too upset with others if the plug gets pulled. The Mayor and everybody at city hall are most likely right now beginning to sweat bullets and the temp. in their shoes is likely dropping. Please read a letter in yesterdays Star News.
The writer from Oak Island is very much on the money as he describes how the Big Boys that do these deals frequently will be the final decision makers. Don't expect Madalay or The Braves to blink very much. The key as I see it is how much can the developers Trask/Flywheel estimate there return to be on the entire redevelopment project.. I like you wish this was about baseball. Wilmington deserves and can handle this great entertainment venue. In the end this is a business deal for economic development. The numbers must be right for every party involved.

Mike T.

So Who,How do we get it done?
Can it be done?
Will it be done?
I say yes,but do not know exactly how much private monies are "in".
Are you "in the know"?

duke

Have confidence that the cities consultants will put together a revenue stream sufficient enough to satisfy projected needs. Have confidence that Mandaly and The Braves will show an increased desire to make Wilmington their home. Have confidence that future development around the park will mimic Durham NC and create a heavy property tax revenue stream.
Can it be done: YES
will it: Good question
The Money: isn't the problem, that's for small thinkers.
I'm not an insider and I'm not in the know. I am however quite experienced in these type projects.
Hang on to that yes idea of yours, this can work and I hope it will.

Mike, your arguments have

Mike, your arguments have accomplished something. You have made me respect SC Tom! How DARE you call me and others opposed to your personal dream SMALL THINKERS. It is my and my fellow taxpayers' money that you and your clique of pseudo-visionaries want to play with.

Get your hands out of my pockets, I am paying enough already.

Tom asked for plain spoken hard dollar projections and you have failed to provide them to him or anyone else.

You want to play, pay for it yourself.

Can it be done?

Yes,be there May29th at city council to see,our future as well as prosperity

The Baseball File

Someone apparently woke up and put the hook on Chuck Kuebler. Really, most of the debate has been hashed out in message boards and blog post. As the proposal and it's terms stand now there is no debate. It is plain and simple not acceptable. The final proposal, the one to be voted on, will need to be a lot sweeter than the initial one. Just a question to WWAY. Who initiated the now canceled face to face between Mr. Fulton and Mr. Kuebler and how were these two selected? It really does not put a shining light on the proponents of this whole stadium idea.

Baseball

I think the pro-side has rested.

Count 3 & 2

It's the bottom of the eighth. The count is 3 & 2 and it's a bad time to walk in a run. The pro baseball folks probably have better information on the venture than the opponents. Someone with a cooler head thought better of using WWAY as venue for debate. Smart Move Guys!!
Oh, Surfey the offer still stands 2 tickets at will call for you. WWAY took down the story before I could get back on today. ?

reply

The Pro side has rested.
There is no more to say at this point you are either "for" or "against".
The points of argument for both side has been made.
Next Tuesday Night we should see the "future" of the "Blessed" Port City.

Oh Mikey

you apparently did not see my most recent post before the item was taken down.

Have you been to a Sharks game or will you be at the season opener next week?

Are you the same Mike listed as an Atlanta Braves rep?

And you have still not accepted the challenge of reviewing the current proposal and noting, piece by piece, where all of the opponents are wrong.

Can'nt you do it?

SN Survey

If you will go to page 7 you will find a story on the Star News Survey.
I posted some info there that might help you understand my thinking.
I think the Sharks are great but pardon me if I think a little bigger.
I pull for the Braves and attend games when in Atlanta but I don't work for them.
I'll take it as a yes from you and your tickets will be at will call.
Your first games on me pal.

Sharks vs Braves Single A team..

MikeT,

I can see you know little about Baseball. What is the difference between the Sharks (College Players) and the Braves (Single A team)?

It is kids that has just finished (dropped out) of college that get paid to play ball. Yes, they are Pro players because they are getting paid. However, their skill level is the same as the ones playing for the Sharks.

Now, if it was a Braves AAA team it would be a different story.

I will repeat what I have said more than once. If this was such a win win investors would be lined up to put money in. Why do we want to finance something for 50 years? The Braves will be asking for a new Stadium after 20..

Sharks vs Braves Single A team

The lease term as proposed is 30 years,how do you get 50?

But again,

you will not accept the challenge and analyze the proposal for all of us who do not have your fiscal knowledge.

Maybe you will when the "revision" is submitted.

I am still wondering why they propose another meeting when the "Professional" report from the consultant is not due until 06/10.

Look at Atlantic City and their vacant ball park

Atlantic City had a major advantage over Wilmington called the Casino Redevelopment Authority which was free money to the city. Even fielded an interesting team including players like Reuben Cierra on his way back to the big leagues.

Well the really attractive stadium is vacant now. Oh well!

So what is the point? Atlantic City has roughly 20 times the population within a 45 minute drive as Wilmington. They built it and they did not come.

Atlantic CIty versus Wilmington

For Wilmington via Wikopedia,
Quote,

Wilmington is a port city in and is the county seat of New Hanover County, North Carolina, United States.[3] The population is 106,476 according to the 2010 Census, making it the eighth most populous city in the state of North Carolina.[1] Wilmington is the principal city of the Wilmington Metropolitan Statistical Area, a metropolitan area that includes New Hanover, Brunswick, and Pender counties in southeastern North Carolina,[4] which has a population of 362,315 as of the 2010 Census

Unquote.

When making calls on big decisions,please compare Apples and Apples.

Baseball

The NUMEROUS casinos are the draw here and not "Baseball".
Atlantic City is not known as "a family fun mecca" as Atlantic City Has a very high crime rate.
The population 45 miles is smaller.as if you go East or South you are in the Atlantic Ocean.
Of course people would come to see "Reuben Cierra" why?
The name is "Reuben Sierra",that makes 4 errors on one play.
Baseball will work nicely is given the opportunity.