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NC House tentatively OK's concealed weapon bill

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RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) - The state House has given its initial approval to Republican legislation that would expand where concealed weapon permit holders can carry or store their pistols, while extending penalties for crimes committed with a gun.

The chamber voted 76-38 Monday night in favor of the measure endorsed by gun-rights groups but opposed strongly by University of North Carolina leaders.

Concealed weapon permit-holders would be allowed to store a gun in a locked car on a public college campus and give that option to private colleges if administrators agree. The proposal also would let permit holders arm themselves in a restaurant where alcohol is served unless the establishment expressly forbids it.

Democrats were angry because Republicans used parliamentary maneuvers to block votes on amendments.

A final House vote is expected Tuesday.

(Copyright 2013 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)

HOW THEY VOTED:
Susi Hamilton (D) - Excused Absence
Ted Davis (R) - Yes
Rick Catlin (R) - Yes (except for third motion)
Chris Millis (R)- Yes
Frank Iler (R) - Yes

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How much good will it do for

How much good will it do for a student, if their gun is in the car while a gunman starts shooting up the classrooms? If you are going to let the law abiding students have guns on campus, then let them keep the guns where they will do the most good.

2020

This only applies to CWP holders - minimum age 21.
Most of the gun owners would be workers
Target the employee parking lots and you might find yourself a weapon and a police force thats not as well trained as regular PD's are.
Perfect situation for a criminal.

Vog

VOG is your med's wearing

VOG is your med's wearing off???? Worried about people keeping weapons locked in their car's? Newsflash, 1/2 the cars out there have a gun in them, and speaking of felons, very few felons are convicted of a violent crime, and are no threat to society, you are thinking of career criminals, dreadlocks and shaved heads. When we went to high school people had their guns in a gun rack in the windows, doors not locked, at lunch even the teachers came out and everyone talked hunting and when the bell rang it was off to the woods hunting, what has changed it so everyone is so afraid, how's that HOPE and CHANGE thing working out for you, society has to have some morals.

Strap it on your side tie it

Strap it on your side tie it down to your leg "problem goes away"

How sad

Democrats were angry because Republicans used parliamentary maneuvers to block votes on amendments.

Yea, it sucks to get what they had been giving Republicans for the last 100 years.

They've modified it to a ban magazine bill

Read this:
http://www.ncleg.net/Applications/BillLookUp/LoadBillDocument.aspx?Sessi...

"AND TO LIMIT THE SIZE OF AMMUNITION MAGAZINES."

Sneaky.....

All those amendments were

All those amendments were tabled...

ATTN WWAY.........

Please - a request.

ANY time you report on a bill before the NC House, the Senate or the Governor, could you PLEASE include the bill number so that some of us "non-believers" in the infallibility of the press can read the legislation for ourselves?
I think that would be responsible journalism.

Respectfully Submitted

Vog

This legislation is flawed

Weapons stored in a cars are not secured.
Car break ins are the LEADING crime on college campuses.
This would put guns in the wrong hands.
Keep the weapons with the CWP holders or don't allow them at all.

As for places that serve alcohol? No guns except by the owner or selected employees.
As a nation we have between 18% and 25% of our people as current or previously convicted felons - the numbers vary by which studies you go by. But no matter what - these people shouldn't be able to own guns yet state after state has given them this right back - somehow thinking they have been miraculously cured of their criminal behavior. In some states it's automatic after just 3 years.
Given the number of repeat felonious offenders in the news lately I have to wonder.........

Vog

Based on your second

Based on your second paragraph ramblings, haven't had your coffee yet?

NC House bill 937

http://www.ncleg.net/gascripts/BillLookUp/BillLookUp.pl?Session=2013&Bil...

I know it's hard for most people to actually look at facts, let alone dig them up on their own (people have no problem posting comments all over the web, yet seem to have a problem using Google to get relevant facts).

In North Carolina you must be at least 21 to purchase and possess a handgun. (NC uses federal standards: 18 U.S.c. § 922(b)(I))--that rules out most students, right?

In all of North Carolina, approximately 3-4% of the residents have concealed carry permits (based on certified 2011 county population estimates and NC DOJ data on permits).

In New Hanover County, there are approximately 166,000 residents over 18 (http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/37/37129.html ) with approx 3400 valid permits (again, NC DOJ stats from their website) giving about 2% of New Hanover residents have concealed carry permits. Numbers would be better if we could get an age breakdown starting at 21, but I couldn't find stats like that.

We're not talking about a lot of people to which this legislation will apply.

Further, with regard to carry in establishments that serve alcohol, please see the existing law (http://ncdoj.gov/getdoc/32344299-a2a7-4ae5-99fd-9018262f64ac/2007-NC-Fir... )

"It is unlawful for the permittee to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol, or at any time while the permittee has remaining in his or her body any alcohol or controlled substance previously consumed." (page 19)

"Keep the weapons with the CWP holders or don't allow them at all."

EXACTLY! If I drive downtown to eat, I would have to leave my handgun in the car (see your comment about car break ins), because I can't have it in the restaurant (where by the way, I'd likely be one of the few that had passed such an extensive background check--how about your waiter that takes your credit card into the back room??). It WOULD be better if I could take it with me--under my control.

Doesn't do a concealed carry permittee much good if their final destination controls whether or not they can even leave the house with their gun.

Vog, you often recite Felon gun-ownership rights...

...from the "legal" standpoint, which I have never confirmed. All of this legal-ease you publish appears to sound somewhat reprehensible, but for the sake of me I cannot recall ANY state or ANY instance where a Felon had gun ownership rights restored and then committed a crime...NOT EVEN ONE. At one time it was possible for a Felon in NC to have the right to own a shotgun for hunting purposes. That is no longer the case. I just can't recall ANY state being foolish enough to allow any violent felon, of any nature, the rights to ANY gun ownership. If that were the case, I would have the same knee-wobbling fear you cry of constantly. Violent felons should not have guns of any sort. You and Biden would make great partners due to your obvious lack of understanding of gun-ownership, constitutional rights and the basic understanding of the law-abiding citizen vs. the muliple convicted, violent felon with a rap sheet of heighnous crime a mile long.

I think you really need to study Felon's rights to gun ownership closely and understand it clearly. I know for a fact that you have misquoted and do not understand the seizure of weapons from felons (and others) by law enforcement in this county or in NC. Find the FACTS and stop speculating and attempting to spread your imagined fears. Your opinion and what YOU want is one thing. To misinterpret law and spread that as fact is yet another. You don't seem to possess the ability to seperate the law-abiding citizen from the felonious criminals or from the obscure mental cases that you continually mix into one big bowl.

My key point is to KEEP violent felons in prison in the first place as we know what they will do when they are placed back into society. Then we protect the public AND we don't have to worry about them getting guns AGAIN do we? And we do that in a manner that it helps pay for itself. We also do that in a manner that will make people THINK before commiting that violent crime the second and third time, much less the rate of 15 convictions we currently see and allow with the repeat offenders. When and only when the legal system begins instituting this very basic practice and IF they find it to be as ineffective as current methodology, that is when I'll begin to listen to them about gun-control to minimize gun related violence!!!
I just don't see that day coming!

Here try reading this

Felons gettng gun rights back is more prevalent than you think:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/14/us/felons-finding-it-easy-to-regain-gu...

And here is a judge - a judge mind you:

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/03/felons-gun-rights-unconstitution...

The same people that sentence felons to light sentences - the same people that allow for parole - now saying violent criminals have gun rights too?

I agree with you that more stringent laws need to be applied and criminals need to stay behind bars but it would appear as though some laws just prevent that from happening.
The judges are enforcing laws enacted by legislatures......so it's not just he judges fault.

Vog

CWP

Vog,

Please get the facts. Right now a CWP can't carry a weapon into a place that serves alcohol. As a CWP holder I am not allow to carry and drink, if I do I am breaking the law. This means if I go to OutBack to eat, I can not carry my weapon into the place.

As far as Schools, if the people was smart they would do like I have done. I have a lock box that if you are going to take my gun you will need a blow torch to cut it out of the vehicle.

re: CWP

"This means if I go to OutBack to eat, I can not carry my weapon into the place."

You can if you don't drink alcohol...right?

no

The law prohibits CCW holders from carrying in any establishment that you can buy and consume alcohol regardless if you are drinking.

And....

The whole purpose of CONCEAL is to hide.
So - who would know?

I know, I know - We're all good law abiding citizens.
We wouldn't do that would we.......
I don't even bring a weapon with me when I go out to eat because I am fickle. I may see a different beer I'd like to try.
Or maybe the Mrs will want a bottle of wine.....

I don't go down town to eat and I certainly don't stay out late (I NEED my beauty sleep).

Vog

Again, you discount the facts and promote total fallacy.

There exists many, many law-abiding citizens in this great country. You discount them as simple-minded, weak, addict prone individuals incapable of following regulations. Where I'm from, we call those kinds of individuals "felons", "criminals", "addicts", "ex-cons" and a host of other badges. There is a line and you tend to believe everyone fits in one big "grey" pot of incapable, idiotic and impulsive dolts. You're DEAD wrong!

Sorry Vog, you talk a big line on here about your knowledge of people, criminals, guns and our legal ability to defend ourselves against the real criminals that are intentionally placed back into society to repeat their criminal actions. I just don't see it. I very seriously doubt that you are a CCP holder, own or even know anything about frearms. If you do, you have a lot of work to do to get yourself up to par as your kind is very dangerous carrying a weapon in public! I'm thinking that you yourself may likely have been one of those few that "slipped through the crack". I'm beginning to understand the basis of your paranoia.

Step out of the dark shadows and realize there is a vast majority of good citizens with the full intent of meeting legal requirements. Not everybody is a mushy, addict prone weakling that can't pass up a beer with his cheesesteak when he knows his responsibility while carrying.

Never said they were

But a nice try anyway.
The majority are law abiding citizens.
And I still believe that we could make these places that sell alcohol safer by allowing owners and employees who could be subjected to criminal background checks during the employment application process to carry. There is no need for John Q Public (the patrons) to carry in these places with THAT type of protection provided.

Nope sorry I've seen too many people do too many stupid things with guns, cars (especially cars) knives etc.
And no not everyone who drinks is an addict - another obfuscation of what I said.
And I damn sure don't believe that MANY CWP holders would even touch the stuff.

But that's a typical argument you make...

Vog

Why should a CCP holder not

Why should a CCP holder not be allowed to carry his gun into a restaurant that serves alcohol as long as he or she did not consume? What real difference would it make even if they did have a beer? You can consume alcohol and drive as long as your blood has less than .08% in NC. As for convicted felons, I have no problem with them owning and carrying a handgun as long as their conviction did not include use of a firearm while committing their felony. Let's get real and use some common sense.

USMC

I'll reply to all

First - why is there a whole section in the NC General Statutes related to felons getting their gun rights back if it doesn't happen? In other states its even quicker than our 20 year wait. You CANNOT argue felons will steal guns as a viable argument without recognizing that some states ALLOW for felons to LEGALLY get weapons back. NC law as I have pointed out is tougher than most with the 20 year wait.Second - as for guns and alcohol. I have said this repeatedly. Alcohol (and drugs) are addictions - as such even CWP holders could take that single drink or smoke that single joint. At what point does THAT stop? I know that CWP holders get vetted but who's to say they don't "turn"?
I will NOT be naive and say all CWP holders are good law abiding citizens and will religiously adhere to the requirements of not drinking or not carrying in a drinking establishment. No one can say that.
Third - guns on campus. Put them in a lock box in your car. Is taking a chance, an unnecessary risk when it's EVIDENT by all statistical evidence that car break ins are the most widely reported campus crime. That's why I said either allow them to carry or don't allow them on campus at all.

Lets face it criminals get guns - but lets not make it easier to do so.
On the other hand lets not tempt human beings by allowing them to be in a place where alcohol is being served while carrying. Humans have failings.
As for waiters? You can do a criminal back ground check on them during the hiring process.

I'm glad to hear that many of "us" feel that there's a responsibility that comes with having the CWP. I don't drink when carrying. I don't put myself in situations where I may need to use my weapon and I make sure they are secured when I'm leaving them un-attended.
But I'm not stupid either and I damned sure don't want some college aged kid or criminal to have an easy time stealing my weapons either - and this law makes it too easy on college campuses.
Imagine a felon - knowing that colleges have vehicle break in problems already - thinking:
"Hey, if I want a gun? All I gotta do is break into some cars at employee parking lots at UNCW! Chances are - I'd get a free gun sooner or later!"
Now - thats really brilliant of our legislature......set up the target for felons to hit.

Vog

You're kidding, right?

"First... Felons..." Too bad, they did it. They make exceptions for white collar crime, and a few other things.

"Second - as for guns and alcohol. I have said this repeatedly. Alcohol (and drugs) are addictions"

For some. You, Vog, in your post that started with "The whole purpose of CONCEAL is to hide. So - who would know? I know, I know - We're all good law abiding citizens."
Two things here. As far as the "who's to know" thing, It's a crime to ignore that, and anyone who's got a permit knows this from the class and the Sheriff paperwork. You just don't intentionally violate the law. It's one of the precursors to getting the permit, why start now? Alcohol is an addiction for some, not all. You yourself said in this post that you might want to try a beer - I assume single, and that the " Mrs will want a bottle of wine.." doesn't mean polish it off.

"Third - guns on campus. Put them in a lock box in your car". Exactly. That is what the proposed law requires. When mine is locked in the car, it's just that. In a a steel box attached to the vehicle. In order to get anywhere near it to start working on getting it it, the car will be making noise - for sure. Someone trying will be attracting attention, and they won't get into it immediately. The car break in people want GPSs, cash, credit cards, etc. Guns raise the stakes for them. Ask any off campus cop about cars in neighborhoods that have been broken into, that contained guns, and all was taken, but the gun was left.

This comment from you I have to question:
"Imagine a felon - knowing that colleges have vehicle break in problems already - thinking: "Hey, if I want a gun? All I gotta do is break into some cars at employee parking lots at UNCW! Chances are - I'd get a free gun sooner or later!"

Uhhh... Same thing applies downtown now. All these people that work in various government buildings - City, County, Federal - that legally carry (concealed or not) but have to disarm and store in their vehicles in the various parking lots BECAUSE THE VERY SAME LAW BEING PROPOSED for college campuses applies to them. Easier pickings there... Basically, you can lock it in your car, but you cannot carry in any of those facilities" Look, as it is now, those people who have a firearm secured in their vehicle who work at any of the applicable campuses now park on the street somewhere. CFCC is easy, since it IS legal to park in the City / County decks (yes, I verified this) with a stored weapon, while it is NOT legal to park in any of the CFCC lots / decks.

Speaking of violating laws, here's a little known fact:
Anyone with a firearm without a CWP issued by the SAME state - off duty cops included - that is not unloaded, and in a locked container within 1000 feet of ANY school is committing a federal felony. Drive on market street past New Hanover high school, and you've done it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act_of_1990

Quadruple aught...

I agree with a lot of what you said,but I maintain my position that we shouldn't make it EASIER for criminals to get access to guns as I said if they can't carry the weapon with them then don't allow for storage in the parking lot - not when the main campus crime is vehicle break in! Not all people have attached lock boxes. Heck MOST have boxes they toss in the glove box.
We have become too complacent - way too complacent with our weapons and I am extra careful with mine.
I am also no fool. If a person is INTENT on killing or holding me up and have their weapon drawn then my goose is cooked - as is anyone's. Having a gun locked up in a car is not providing anyone with security but the situation BEGS for the illegal possession of a weapon by some kid who just wanted to break into a vehicle. Sorry that is a chance I personally don't want to see this state take. Violent gun related crime on our campuses is rare - and they have ahem LEO's (that is questionable) on site. Given the quality of these LEOs I would rather they not have to deal with weapons on campus.
But htts me.

Now as for carrying a gun near a school being a federal offense?
Is it usurped by this :
Chapt 14 Article 53B

§ 14‑409.40. Statewide uniformity of local regulation.

"(f) Nothing contained in this section prohibits municipalities or counties from application of their authority under G.S. 153A‑129, 160A‑189, 14‑269, 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, 14‑277.2, 14‑415.11, 14‑415.23, including prohibiting the possession of firearms in public‑owned buildings, on the grounds or parking areas of those buildings, or in public parks or recreation areas, except nothing in this subsection shall prohibit a person from storing a firearm within a motor vehicle while the vehicle is on these grounds or areas. "

Makes me wonder:
"except nothing in this subsection shall prohibit a person from storing a firearm within a motor vehicle while the vehicle is on these grounds or areas."
It looks like a car traveling down Market can have a stored weapon in it.
The city/county can say no to weapons in our buildings but apparently not in cars. Schools are county owned.
Its an interesting question but I would assume the Feds have the over riding authority but this is "feel good" legislation.
Vog